In this episode of How India's Economy Works, Puja Mehra speaks with Electrical Engineer Sudhir Gera, Director of Operations at IEC Electric Power Ltd, who has spent over three decades in the industry and has worked closely with engineering colleges, regulators, and policymakers. He explains why India's challenge is not a shortage of engineering graduates but a shortage of industry-ready skills. From outdated curricula and weak industry-academia collaboration to the dominance of IT jobs and the neglect of hands-on manufacturing training, Gera argues that the country's engineering education system is no longer aligned with the needs of modern industry.

He also proposes an ambitious "linking school" model that would connect engineering colleges, local industries, and students—much like teaching hospitals do for medical education—to bridge the gap between classrooms and shop floors. The discussion also explores how AI is reshaping engineering careers, why manufacturing deserves renewed attention, and what reforms are needed if India is to become a global manufacturing powerhouse.

Tune in for insights on why India's employability crisis is really a skills crisis, how engineering education can be reimagined for manufacturing, and what it will take to build the workforce India's industrial future demands.

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TRANSCRIPT

NOTE: This transcript is done by a machine. Human eyes have gone through the script but there might still be errors in some of the text, so please refer to the audio in case you need to clarify any part. If you want to get in touch regarding any feedback, you can drop us a message on feedback@thecore.in.

Puja Mehra: Mr. Gera, welcome to the show. Thank you for coming.

Sudhir Gera: Thank you, Puja. Thank you.

Puja Mehra: You know, usually I speak with economists and researchers on the show, but we tend to discuss a lot about manufacturing. And I thought it would be a good idea to bring you on the show, since you have first-hand experience of running an electrical equipment manufacturing business. And you and I have been discussing a critical pain point for MSMEs.

But before I come to that specific point that I want to talk to you in today's show, I'd like you to say something about yourself and your manufacturing firm. What do you do? How large is your firm?

And things like that, so that listeners have an idea about where you're coming from.

Sudhir Gera: What actually my journey has been, I've been working for a few multinationals at the start of my career. Then we get into the business that is in the year somewhere in 2013. And then from last 10 years, we are into this business of manufacturing gensets.

So otherwise, if you really see my experience in manufacturing industry as such, is more than three decades at various levels. At my own venture or as a partnership venture, which we started a few years back, is around 10 years old.

Puja Mehra: So coming to the specific question that I want you to address in today's show, which is what you call India's engineer's employability crisis. Your first-hand experience stems from manufacturing, but this is also a systemic bottleneck affecting mechanical, civil, and electrical sectors. Besides your first-hand experience, what is unique is that you also have the big picture view of this crisis because you've been invited by engineering colleges, apex regulatory bodies, etc., where they seek your opinion and advice on how to bridge this massive gap between what campuses are teaching and what the actual site work or shop floors demand. So I'd really like you to help listeners understand the true nature of this skills gap, the size and the nature, the deep divide between the theoretical engineering curriculum and the hands-on application that they need on the shop floor.

Sudhir Gera: See Puja, when we are going deep into this subject, first let me define employability. There is a difference between employable and employability. So employability is having the skills, knowledge, and mindset to get a job, maintain that job, and grow in your career.

So that is employability. Employment is that you are just eligible. You are just eligible for that job.

So that is not employability. So when I am saying it is a crisis, employability crisis, then it is that India is today producing more than 15 lakh engineers annually from nearly 6,500 engineering colleges, but 15 to 20 percent actually are employable. So it means that doesn't mean balance 80 percent are non-employable.

They are deemed employable. What is the meaning of deemed employable is the potential exists in those, but they are not ready for the industry skills, what the skills is required. They are not ready for that.

So majority are not yet ready for in practical terms. So there is a shortage of readiness. India does not have a shortage of talent.

Or intellect. We have a shortage of execution readiness. We do not have any execution readiness.

I'm taking you back into the history. Post-independent, we have something like 60s, some which I read from net only, that there were some 3,000 engineering seats only. And today it's like 15 lakh engineers are coming out.

Now, the major shift which India has seen in near 95 to 2000, when this 2K crisis has come, then India was going into IT segment, telecom segment. India felt that we should have more engineers. But then the government then thought of it that they cannot have so much engineering colleges and talent they can attract really.

So they have gone for privatisation of more engineering colleges. It was earlier in Bangalore or South, then they expanded into all of the India. Then after this expansion, IT and telecom did a fantastic job.

When we started a journey of 2000, they did a fantastic job. And those engineers, they served in those segments and all were absorbed there. But during that journey, one of the aim was to support MSMEs also for basic engineering, electrical, mechanical, electronics industry also.

But somehow those white-collar jobs have actually given a backseat to these domain areas. And somehow they have started attracting other domains than IT or telecom to these segments. I mean, electrical, mechanical or civil or chemical even, they are eligible for getting a job into IT and telecom.

Now, when I am using the word crisis, so how we reach to this crisis is that IT sector has a lot of training budget with them because for them, it is a raw material. Students are raw material for them. They have a basic knowledge, they train them according to their needs and then use them as per their requirement.

But when we talk about MSMEs industry, they don't have that much merchants. IT and telecom have those much margins to train them because that is a raw material. And when I talk about industry, which is manufacturing, they cannot afford.

So there the radius is not there for domain areas. And MSMEs cannot afford them if they do not have a talent, if they do not have skills. Because they even can't train, they can't afford the training to them also because they don't have that merchants.

So what finally went into a crisis is that MSME industry especially, or I will say manufacturing industry has gone into a vacuum where there is no skill. Now, everybody want to go to IT, everybody want to go to a segment which is white collar job, more money and more salaries, more work-life balance is there. So those were all attractions there.

So mechanical shop, civil construction, electrical substation, all these have become a big vacuum where we could not get any right skill.

Puja Mehra: You're essentially saying that because the IT sector has very high profitability margins, they're able to afford the cream of the students that come out of engineering colleges, regardless of their specialisation and they are able to spend money on training them for their requirement. And the remaining students that are there in the market for MSMEs such as yours to absorb in mechanical and other streams, you don't get ready for the job to be done on your shop floor kind of students. And you also do not have the profitability margins to retrain them for your purposes.

Sudhir Gera: I say not retrain, even train. Even for readiness of industry, which manufacturing industry is looking for, we don't have that much infrastructures to train them. That's a big infrastructure is required because it is not an IT training sitting on a laptop, something you will do it.

They are coming from a conventional labs and I'm having a working shop floor. There is a hell of a difference. But the difference between IT is a laptop to laptop.

Puja Mehra: What is the campus reality like? What are colleges fundamentally missing here? Are students being left behind by outdated curriculum or they're out of sync with what the industry's requirement is on skill development?

Is that what's happening? Campuses here are what is the bottleneck?

Sudhir Gera: The problem is now become very complex. We are talking after a year when AI has come. I think that before AI era, still the problem was solvable.

But now it has become too difficult to solve this problem. I mean, we all have to sit together. I mean, industry has to sit together, engineering colleges have to sit together and the government has to sit together to understand where are the gaps and how to fill these gaps.

Now, I have extended my discussion on this, more crisis in manufacturing. Today, you know, Puja, in India, mostly we are assemblers now. We are not manufacturers.

Either you take LED TV, either you take air conditioning, either you take any product today, we are assemblers. We take some chips from outside, technology from outside, some component from outside, body we make, software we make, but we are basically assemblers. We are not manufacturers.

Hardcore manufacturer is hardly 10% in India. Do you agree with me this or not?

Puja Mehra: Yeah, in fact, it really struck me when you said the other day to me that we don't have a single homegrown manufacturing brand of this nature. We don't even make washing machines in this country.

Sudhir Gera: I mean, those are brands are there. I will not say there are few, few brands are not there, but you know, it will be interesting in those brands also components are used, are imported. We are not manufacturing the components also in those Indian brands.

Puja Mehra: In fact, we are highly dependent on imports.

Sudhir Gera: Highly dependent, highly dependent. And what is the reason for it? That we are not, our total ecosystem is not prepared for that.

I will not say it is only engineering colleges, which are responsible for against total ecosystem. Mindset of industry, mindset of engineering colleges or universities or education system, I will say. And definitely the government, which is taking care.

All this ecosystem need to correction. And I will appreciate that government has taken a lot of steps in the last 10 years. I will not say that they are not taking the steps.

See, in Japanese, they have a course with them, what they call as KOSEN some of their languages, which I was reading. That from age of 15 years to 20 years, they only train engineers for manufacturing industry.

Puja Mehra: Especially when you look at manufacturing from the lens of employment, which is what India needs to do.

Sudhir Gera: Oh, you can do something in chip manufacturing. You can do something for a mechanical point of view. They only deal with these courses in pure going, sending the students for manufacturing industry and they take the feedback from manufacturing industry.

And then they do those courses there and everything. They have a very, very less bookish syllabus in that curriculum for that. So that is what they call is a Japanese KOSEN.

So they were only trained for them. Now, apparently when I see in India, there is some scale ministry has come out, scale university has come out. I will not say that India has not taken steps.

I appreciate those steps are there. But now again, my query is that how to build that ecosystem between scale university, students, and then again, what industry is looking for. So this is now the biggest in scale university in India.

You know, Puja is stigma, social stigma. I am working for a blue collar job. I have to work with my own hands.

That keeps this course as a second level of course, not first level of course. If you don't get a right B.Tech college and you are then again born into this university, that is scale university. That is something which I have found that nobody's preferring as a first level of course.

Puja Mehra: You're spot on. You're spot on, which is that probably greater number of job openings are there in this segment, but they don't become first choice of students because we seem to not regard the word skills as much as we should.

Sudhir Gera: Yes, our social setup is like that. Second is government jobs. They are not eligible for the government jobs.

If B.Tech from vocational course is there, he may not be fit for or eligible for any government job. And in India, it is a culture. You should have a degree which is suitable for a government positioning.

Best of my knowledge, I may be wrong, but this is what I have read and I understood. Then there is a massive awareness gaps between industry actual needs and potential students. Students are getting into the university.

They are training also them, but actually what digital industry is required or what electrical industry is required or what car industry is required, nobody as such has come to us. What are your challenges as a skill? We are from so and so university.

No, nobody has come to me. So they are teaching with some gap studied by some committee. I might not say that.

Some must have studied. Some must have studied, but really there is a gap. Even they have not come for employment to us.

Even if they are teaching something on digital industry or electrical industry, nobody has approached me. I have so much students trained for you and I can give you those students. Please come to my campus.

Nothing. It is one way. So skill is happening somewhere else.

Training is happening somewhere else. And I don't know who is consuming that.

Puja Mehra: There is a role for policy in repairing this. And you interact so much with policymakers and you've been asking that the way medical colleges and hospitals do this, that same module should be applied to engineering. This is the concept of linking schools that you've been talking to me about.

And I'd really like to help our listeners understand that because that's a solution, possible solution.

Sudhir Gera: Correct. See, Puja, I divided this statement of yours in two parts. One is that responsibility of statutory boards or statutory government, which really has to regulate these things.

That is a broader way. Like skill university, government has come, put a lot of initiatives on that. But let's now, because that initiative has been taken by the government, I will not comment on that much.

But what the colleges can do initially or what universities can do initially, I can put some light on that. And it is a workable solution. It will benefit three verticals.

One is academia. Second is the linking industry. The third is the students.

So these all will be in the win-win situation. Academia, as well as industry, as well as the students. So university, industry and students all will be in a win-win situation.

So what I am thinking that there is no medical college without a hospital. And how come in engineering colleges, where the really output has to go to the industry, do not have that. There's no linkage today.

There's a linkage in the name of some trainings or some in the name of six months placement training. Some trainings are there, but are they really justifying the way we require them as industry? What we require by them?

It's a big no. It's just a curriculum part. They do six months, even in some two-room industry or two-room service segment or two-room some IT segment.

They go there and then they just have a training just to complete the curriculum. So actually we are not on the right path. Now the bigger problem is this.

Today, all universities on academia are focussing on IT. Now this era is also going to be over in the way the AI has come. Having said this, they are just focussing on IT.

The manufacturing industry as such has been not taken care. So 80%, 90% of their recruitment is happening in IT and they're happening. I have never seen any institution giving an awareness or advertising that we are doing something on manufacturing.

They are all advertising on IT and IT and IT. So we need to have one linkage between academia and industry. So that to address the manufacturing challenge.

So what will be the mission of this school? What I'm thinking this school to be developed within the university or a college and this school will have three stakeholders. One is itself is a college.

Second is local industry. I will not say if I'm talking about Punjab, let us be as a Punjab industry. Let us not expand to Haryana and other states.

And if you're talking about Maharashtra, let us talk about Maharashtra because their industry will be localised different. Here the industry will be localised different. That industry stakeholders will map with the engineering colleges what the skills they require and let some credits, some credits of those courses should be given to the students for passing that degree.

So those will be trained and they can, they're ready to choose. If suppose some mechanical engineering want to go to designing a car. Okay.

So those skills can be developed for designing a car. So somebody want to go into a textile. So he can be trained for a domain knowledge of six months as a textile industry.

Somebody want to work for electrical industry. So there can be, I will not say there's an easy task. It's a difficult task.

Somebody has to map it. Then third is that students are trained for that. Now it is ensured after mapping that students are trained for that.

Now how students will be trained for that? That will again the responsibility of these stakeholders that is industry as well as the students. I will not leave the students alone.

The students are not the part of it. Students as well as the linking school that is the stakeholders of industry. So this linking school will have a process in campus.

So first is as industry vetted content training models are co-designed with the corporate partners. To have a real world needs and current best practises. Then the problem is that from where to get experts.

Now experts can be even a diploma holders. They can also come and train. That's not that only we require a high tech PhDs for getting those industrial training.

We are also welcome to train. But our problem is that we only invite those people which we know. So engineering colleges or university have this gap that they only know the IT people.

Manufacturing there is a gap. They don't know the manufacturing people. I'm sorry but I'm giving that statement.

So when it comes to resource planning they are also being selected by the linking school from the industry ensuring current applied and credible instructions. So these practitioners when we call they can give the right skills to them. Now selection will be done by the linking school.

Having said this every student want if I have taken a training some certification has to be given. So that particular industry can give a certification also to them. So this is one of the portfolio.

Now I am transferring it to how to get those skills for which trainings are required to get that skills. So first is leadership and personality which is on business communication emotional intelligence and competency building. Second part is process and operation management that is supply chain project management and lean management then quality management then IT management and AI applications which is IT infrastructure application security and governance.

Then is the core engineering which I have said to you in the way industry specific technical programmes. You one student can select one programme out of it. We want to select same manufacturing industry electrical industry mechanical industry civil any industry which is available with the linking school.

So those linking schools can support him with that. But this programme has to be given by the linking school. All practitioners will be from industry.

Nobody will be from engineering institution. Sorry it has to be from practising engineers will give them a training.

Puja Mehra: I want you to explain this a little more when you say that it's all right if they are just diploma holders but they have to be practitioners and not just PhD holders from college faculties. I want you to say a little more about this. Why is this important and how this will help?

Sudhir Gera: Even if today any IAS is selected or any civil servant as UPS is selecting them you know training is happening to the lowest level. Am I correct? Yes.

Any civil servant has to start from the basic level from where they have to start. So even if engineer has to start his career even they have to start from just standing on the machine and seeing that how it is get repaired and who will tell that how it is repaired. Only a technician can tell them how to get repaired.

He may be having academic knowledge but our problem is that we are calling in engineering colleges big shots telling some big things. Now for electrical engineer or a mechanical engineer if he doesn't know how to set a right a three-phase system or electrical engineer on a three-phase system or single-phase system so then how come their academic knowledge is really required by us? Our challenge is this only.

I am saying they may be having better academic knowledge. Good engineering colleges have better academic knowledge undoubtedly. But now to how to bridge it with what is happening on the ground.

Even I have four-five years of start of my career as electric engineer I work with my own hands which is actually helping me till today. If I would have not worked out then those five years I would not even communicating in the way I am communicating even today with you. That is what my basic skills of five years have helped me.

Even I have got to talk from ITI people why even diploma holders. Some electrician told me how to do connections. Now how better the connection can be done is my outlook with academics.

That is fine. But what he is doing even I am not aware of it. How to do it now right way I may know it in a better way as an engineer.

So that is the gap. Have you understood?

Puja Mehra: Yes. But who bells the cat? You sit down with policy makers and regulators and curriculum builders.

What do you say to them about your linking school model and how do they respond?

Sudhir Gera: Again I am saying the linking model linking school model now is not only for manufacturing industry it can be for IT. But again I am having said all these things in my earlier communication with you. IT is doing its job because they are training the freshers at their own cost.

The problem is more on domain knowledge. So if I am talking about domain is electrical, mechanical, civil or production engineering so we have to develop a linking school concept which may come under Skellige University if it can come. The government can also intervene.

The policy makers can also intervene into that. And let that interact with the industry. Let them interact with the institution and the students.

Because students also have to make aware that IT is not the only world. Manufacturing is a big world. Only you should have the right skills they will pay you at a par maybe then more than even IT.

More stability than IT. Because IT is changing continuously. Now from coding to AI we don't know what will happen after this.

So manufacturing is going to be stable in coming time. And manufacturing is going to be a big boom in a coming time. I was sitting with somebody drone then battery storage systems.

You know they are going to be a big way than data centres. These three business verticals are booming but we are nowhere. Neither in data centres we are nowhere.

Neither in drones manufacturing. Neither we are into a storage system. So all opportunities exist but we have to prepare ourselves.

So now what discussion is going on that exactly you said who will make the hospital that is linking school who will making linking school in the college. Now that is a big question because industry will say what I have to do how can I make it who will fund it and all that things. Here I think the policy maker will come where really I would like to ask your help also that how it can happen.

Because some hospital we have to open in the campus itself so that students can come and get trained there. And industry also has to support that linking school. Local industry has to support that linking skill.

Now problem is that how to sink these three people together. These three teams together. One is engineering colleges then local industry and third is the students.

This is something is my dream model that it should come true. But how it will happen can you help me in this?

Puja Mehra: What I can do is I can send our conversation to policy makers that can be my contribution. But what you are saying is so important Mr. Ghera because manufacturing we cannot give up on manufacturing. We for years talked about it and it is very important now to get it right because the geopolitics is such that we cannot have too much dependence on imports and the employability question is such that for employment we do need to rebuild our in fact build our manufacturing sector.

Now is the time to do it and like you said that you know there is a future here and the time is right perhaps because IIT is not as attractive as it used to be. So this is the time probably to give a renewed push to manufacturing.

Sudhir Gera: You know and from IIT's directors or somewhere I was reading they have said now the students which we are getting in the IIT is not of the right intellect which we are looking for because they are more on MCQ's. You know you must have read on this they are all on MCQ's they are not coming in the way they wanted that and they are also worried that they are maybe having a very good marks in JEE advance and they are coming to IIT's but they are not having the stuff which actually industry is looking for. So this is a something is a big question we will you have to look for a local big ecosystem right from schools to our higher level of education IIT's engineering or medicine medicine is also going to change in the same way with AI I don't know how they are coping up or how they will cope up I don't know.

So, all these things have to be synced. Now, the same linking school I will say is required in the schools also. Why it is only on engineering colleges?

Again, the school students have to become CA, they have to become doctors, they have to become engineers. Is there any syncing between then what is happening in industry and what is taught in schools today also? Because we cannot develop any skill at the final year of B.Tech, you know. I think industry can do this initiative. 3, 4, 5 industrialists I think at a local level we can get collected. Give this curriculum to them if we need this.

Somebody will do it. Maybe I can do it like for example. Same people like me also can add on and they can also give their time and everything.

But now my challenge is that having said all these things, will the institution become excited about this opportunity? Is there any norm for them? For them it will not be a norm because it's still a big journey for them.

First we will train them for manufacturing. Maybe manufacturing company will come once or twice or thrice. They may not come.

Then students will think it is better to go to IT to get 20,000 salary or 30,000 salary rather than going to manufacturing where the salaries are not at par with IT. But somebody, someday we have to take the baby steps. This is what exactly I have to say.

So, this linking school can have inside projects also. Even FTP. I think this linking school will arrange the FTPs also.

Faculty development programmes for the engineering college students. I think all engineering colleges must be measured by the skills more rather than it is being measured by the PhDs they do, what they do into area or what labs they have. What skill actually they are developing into the students should be the criteria of evaluating them.

We still have the letter which come to a place from various engineering colleges today is, area is this, so many PhD doctorates are this, then so many papers are published and then they write that their students should be highly placed into IT segment. Now Puja, tell me how they are helpful to me?

Puja Mehra: You are talking about the invitations from colleges to you to go for their placement, is it?

Sudhir Gera: Yeah. So, when they come for a placement or training request, the letter is uniform for all jobs, for all segment of industries. It is safe.

It is written as area, it is written as PhD, it is written as how many papers are internationally published and how the students are getting the placement and last is the highest package, average package. This will not help me. Just write that for electrical, we are teaching or making the skills, these three, four, five skills.

We are having, my students will have those three, four skills. It is enough for me. I don't need this.

I will just take my phone and then call. Please send the students.

Puja Mehra: You are saying this shows how they are completely out of tune with what you require.

Sudhir Gera: Yeah. So, they are thinking that if they will write a big area or a PhD or this thing, they are also not wrong because they are being mentored by some statutory requirement to fulfil those things. Although, you know, government has taken some steps on that but they are not mandatory.

Why not engineering college, faculty, either government or private, can be 20% or 30% from the industry. They can come and teach and go. Let them pay good salaries.

No issue. I think industry will love to do that. Many industries will love to do that to send their engineers.

They can earn more. They can give them industrial leave to them to teach. The government has floated those policies that is professor of excellence.

So, they have gone for those schemes that were trained in their own skill set. They can come to engineering colleges and teach. And you know how it happens.

It is not advertised. It is just said that yeah, maybe advertised also. I may be wrong.

But it is not in the way it is awareness to industry that yes, we have those schemes. I have not got any letter from any engineering colleges. If anybody is interested for such type of adjunct faculty, they can come join us and we can interact with each other.

No, it may have come a newspaper on internet or some college. That is okay.

Puja Mehra: I think these positions get freed up purely by references.

Sudhir Gera: By references or who is in need of that. I am sorry. This job is not meant for who needs them.

No. This is meant for that who are skilled for that job. So, we have to attract that faculty into our institution.

We do not have this measurement in our accreditation of the institutions. Have you seen any time the accreditation of institution? No.

It is hardly some segment is there for industry interaction. This world is industry interaction. It is not interaction now.

We have to come into action now. It is happening from decades together, industry academia interaction. Now it is a time for action, I would say.

So, interactions are happening. Continuously they are happening. But now what is the result?

It is coming out. I have attended so many conferences, so many get togethers. But at the end of the day, we all give the suggestions and then there is no closure for that.

Today, if you have to get a B.Tech engineer who has to really know the electrical or mechanical job is not available. Similarly, mechanical civil is civil. And irony of the situation is this is being run by technicians.

I will not say that this condition is there not for large and medium scale industry. Large and medium scale still industries still get survived because they pay more, their mechanism of training them is more. They are getting induction of these students system is different but much better than small scale industry.

But small scale industries which is a, you know, 30% of our GDP today. How we can forget that? And then the way the possibilities are even a big manufacturing hub also.

So, there also we need manufacturing engineers. And now Puja is very important because after AI, IT will have different shape. In coming time, I don't want to comment much about IT because I am not an IT person.

But definitely the manufacturing now need a push in the way we are going into the digital economy.

Puja Mehra: I agree with you fully. Thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation.

Sudhir Gera: Thank you Puja. Thanks for your time on this subject which will be helpful for all of us. Thank you.