On Episode 848 of The Core Report, financial journalist Govindraj Ethiraj talks to Upasna Bhardwaj, Chief Economist at Kotak Mahindra Bank; Adelle Thomas, Director of Adaptation at NRDC and Vice Chair of the IPCC Working Group; as well as Krishnan Sitaraman, Chief Ratings Officer at Crisil Ratings.

SHOW NOTES

(00:00) Stories of the Day

(00:50) The markets cheer the words as always but why the actions suggest otherwise

(04:07) Indian exports rise to the US on lower tariffs

(06:14) How a reduced monsoon will impact the economy

(13:32) Why is bank credit slowing this year?

(24:30) Extreme heat is emerging as one of the most immediate climate risks globally

—

NOTE: This transcript contains the host's monologue and includes interview transcripts by a machine. Human eyes have gone through the script but there might still be errors in some of the text, so please refer to the audio in case you need to clarify any part. If you want to get in touch regarding any feedback, you can drop us a message on feedback@thecore.in.

Good morning, it's Thursday the 16th of April and this is Govindraj Ethiraj broadcasting and streaming weekdays from Mumbai, India's financial capital.

Our top stories and themes on this very warm Mumbai day.

The markets cheer, the words is always, but why the actions suggest otherwise.

India's exports to the United States rise on lower tariffs

How a reduced monsoon will impact the economy

Why bank credit is slowing this year and what that means.

And extreme heat is emerging as one of the most immediate climate risks globally, but policy and adaptation systems are lagging.

Markets, The Blockade, The Rupee and Oil

Is the war over? Well, quite definitely no. The markets are cheering a fresh set of statements and gestures signalling the end of the war and Wednesday's benchmarks reflected that. But on ground, not much has changed, except that relentless bombing has been replaced by an economic and naval blockade.

The US blockade of Iranian ports is now fully into effect, completely cutting off Tehran's international sea trade that powers about 90% of its economy, CNBC reported the US Central Command saying late Tuesday night. The announcement comes at a time when the White House has been signalling a diplomatic solution to the conflict in the Middle East. More than 90% of Iran's roughly $110 billion in annual seaborne trade transits through the state of Hormuz and Iran lacks any significant alternative trade routes, according to analysts who spoke to CNBC.

The blockade took effect on Monday and involves more than 10,000 US troops, over a dozen Navy ships and fighter jets in the Gulf of Oman and the Arabian Sea, according to the US military. In the first 24 hours, no ships made it past the blockade, with six merchant vessels ordered to turn back to re-enter an Iranian port on the Gulf of Oman, CNBC quoted US forces saying, but some other ships, including bound for China, appear to have got through. Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund on Tuesday cut its global growth forecast to 3.1% for 2026, down from 3.3% in its January forecast, while warning that the world was drifting towards an adverse scenario where oil prices could stay around $100 per barrel.

Brent crude futures were up about $0.70 to $95.50 a barrel on Wednesday morning after falling close to 5% in the previous session. So essentially crude oil prices are now rising once again after some relief on Tuesday. The Lull Street resumed trading on Wednesday after a holiday on Tuesday to extend its shopping for beaten down stocks.

Indian stocks rose to a one-month high on Wednesday, tracking Asian stocks as well as oil fell below $100 a barrel on expectations that there might be a conclusion to the war. The Nifty 50 and the Sensex were up specifically after or rather following US President Donald Trump's statement that the war with Iran is nearing an end. The Nifty 50 was up 388 points to 24,231 and the Sensex was up 1,264 points to 78,111.

The broader markets were also strong. The Nifty mid-cap and small-cap indices were up 2.2% and 2.35% each. The question of course is, will foreign institutional investors or portfolio investors return to India in bigger numbers? Well, at this point, any return will be slow and steady given both valuation and currency issues which of course could lead to a more stable rise in the indices assuming other problems get sorted out.

To give you a background, foreign investors have sold about $19 billion in 2026 with some $12.7 billion going out in March alone. Till date, that's starting from January 2025, foreign institutional investors have sold about $38 billion of Indian stocks. The rupee meanwhile was nearly unchanged on Wednesday and that was the day where there was persistent dollar demand from local importers including oil marketing companies according to Reuters which added that the rupee closed at Rs.93.37 almost the same as the previous day.

Indian Exports to the US

Indian exports have benefited from lower US tariffs that have pushed shipments though on the other hand freight and insurance costs have risen apart from severe delays near the state of Hormuz which is an important supply route. India's merchandise trade deficit narrowed to about $20.6 billion in March according to data that was released on Wednesday thanks to that export surge to the United States.

Merchandise exports were at $38.9 billion in March from $36.6 billion in the previous month. Imports fell from $63 billion or $63.7 billion to about $59.5 billion. Meanwhile, India's gems and jewellery exports for the 25-26 that's the full year now that we're talking about fell about 3.3 percent from a year earlier to their lowest in five years according to the gems and jewellery export promotion council.

So total exports for gems and jewellery for the year were at $27.7 billion and that was down from $28.7 billion in the previous year. Meanwhile, a Crisil report said that the West Asia conflict has led to a significant tightening of India's financial conditions in March as it triggered foreign portfolio investor outflows, a sharp fall in the rupee and firmed up bond yields. Domestic liquidity it said also tightened due to tax outflows.

The Crisil financial conditions index or FCI fell outside the defined comfort band dropping to minus 1.5 from zero in February. Now while the FCI has been negative for 10 of the past 12 months, this is the first time since May 2022 that it's fallen below the comfort zone of one standard deviation from the long period average measured since April 2010 according to Crisil. Now financial markets have responded more to global market volatility than what the real sector indicator suggests says that report and adds that since the West Asia-led tremors began the reserve bank has demonstrated its ability to mitigate the adverse impact on India's financial and currency markets using multiple instruments ranging from open market operations to regulatory measures in the market.

This Monsoon’s Impact on the Economy

India's wholesale price index linked inflation increased to 3.88 percent in March from 2.13 percent in February, the highest in 41 months according to data released by the Ministry of Commerce and Industry. This was largely due to a jump in prices of crude petroleum and natural gas, other manufacturing, non-food articles and manufacture of basic metals and food. Prices of electricity interestingly were down about five percent so that's minus five percent in March.

Meanwhile retail inflation as we had mentioned earlier had risen to 3.4 percent in February 2026 according to data from the Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation but that was on Monday. The uptick in inflation in March was largely driven by a slight increase in food prices and items like silver and gold jewellery witnessed a sharp rise. So while inflation has ticked higher the larger question is what could happen in a low monsoon season as has been projected by the Indian Meteorological Department which has projected a below normal southwest monsoon for 2026 with rainfall estimated at 92 percent of the long period average marking the lowest first stage long range forecast in at least 25 years according to reports.

The outlook comes in contrast to the above normal monsoons which we saw in 2024 and 25 both at 108 percent of the long period average. I reached out to Upasana Bhardwaj, Chief Economist at Kotak Mahindra Bank and I began by asking her how she was reading the monsoon impact on the overall economy.

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Upasna Bhardwaj: If you look at how things have been in the past, mostly, if not all, there's been a shortfall then it has led to spiking of the food inflation. You know this is a time unfortunately wherein India is already braced with risks on the supply side because of geopolitical risks. So I guess at this point in time when we're talking about subpar monsoon risks then clearly there is a possibility of spike in food prices and if that was to play out then we do see overall inflation trajectory significantly higher than 5 percent.

We'll have to wait and watch probably you know how this El Nino is going to build up and how that is going to play out because there are also times in the past we've seen that even if there is a shortfall in the monsoons but if it is equally or evenly distributed and not a very erratic kind of shortfall then we may not necessarily have that much of abrupt shortfall and that may not have such kind of an abrupt impact on inflation prices. So we'll have to wait and watch how this plays out.

Govindraj Ethiraj: So you're saying the main thing to watch out for now is to see the distribution of the rainfall rather than the actual amount of rainfall which is of course we know is less. Absolutely. Okay also one is rainfall and its impact on food prices and thus inflation.

Is there any other second order impact that you would potentially look out for overall because of monsoons being not what they were?

Upasna Bhardwaj: So the other way to look at this is of course that when there's a crop disruption then we do have issues with respect to the rural demand. So the second order goes then further ahead and we look at an economy which is already right now facing downside risks to growth because of geopolitical again aspects and to that if we do have a you know subpar monsoon risks then clearly the rural incomes are going to take a hit and that further would weigh on the rural demand which actually has been a very core driver of growth in the last two years. So we will be watchful on the rural demand side as well.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Got it. On both inflation that's retail as well as wholesale we've had numbers come out both have risen so could you walk us through what you're picking up from these numbers?

Upasna Bhardwaj: Again you know mostly they are in line with expectations because you know one for the retail inflation if you see then now the normalisation from absolute low levels of inflation was expected to be coming about and of course food inflation has some of the elements within food inflation have been on an uptick but if we look at the distribution or of CPI inflation then the underlying core inflation is not looking very concerning at this point in time.

So that is one thing to keep in mind that supply side food inflation risks are going to be there in the near term but as long as the underlying inflation remains a check RBI will probably remain comfortable but the other side is WPI which is more market linked which is more global price linked and obviously the entire impact of the geopolitical risk the rise in input prices overall the fertiliser prices the oil prices all of the impact along with that metal prices were already rising prior to the crisis all of that impact is showing up much more visibly in the WPI inflation. So we will continue to see upside now henceforth so the best of all the inflation readings be it CPI or WPI is behind us and we will be seeing uptrend across wholesale as well as retail inflation.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Right and is there any one area for example right now petrol and diesel prices are suppressed in India on the retail side at least any indications that are telling you what overall economic impact or in the context of inflation might be if prices were to be opened up whether it's petrol diesel or other things?

Upasna Bhardwaj: Yes you know we've already seen one round of LPG price hikes right.

Govindraj Ethiraj: 60 rupees per cylinder yeah.

Upasna Bhardwaj: Yes and of course you know likelihood we might see more price hikes going ahead maybe you know after a while if oil prices were to sustain then clearly the pass-through as of now the pass-through has not been there to the retail category. We've seen the OMCs and the government having borne the brunt of it but of course beyond the point we do expect the prices are going to rise and if that is going to happen then that will start pinching the consumer at some point in time. So of course we do expect that higher inflation if all of that is going to be passed on to the consumer it will have a bearing on the purchasing power of the consumers especially as we discussed before on the monsoon front if the rural demand is taking a hit and at the same time urban demand probably because of higher inflation all of that does suggest that there's a significant downside risk to overall growth projections that anybody is looking at.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Right and last question is there any flip side to this any silver lining or anything that suggests some measure of resilience or you know an ability to withstand these pressures?

Upasna Bhardwaj: So the good thing is India started this crisis period let's say until February. India entered this crisis at a much more healthier note. We were looking at a GDP growth of seven percent we were looking at inflation around 4.1 percent you know fiscals were in control current account deficit wasn't checked so overall the fundamentals were looking good. So the ability to absorb this risk is clearly there to an extent but having said that of course you know the longevity of this persistence of supply side disruption you know it is not about just the end of the war that we're talking about but we're talking about the issues associated with the pass-through you know second order and third order impact and how long will it take before supply side disruptions normalise. I think that is going to be key in determining how bad the situation can get and how much we can absorb the shock but for now I don't think the situation is that bad.

If we were to see an end to the issue you know like globally what we're seeing right now there is at least some progress over talks. If this ends here then over three four months to go we'll probably see some normalisation and activity.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Upasna, thank you so much for joining me.

Upasna Bhardwaj: Thank you.

Slowing Bank Credit

Bank credit will slow to about 13 percent this fiscal despite healthy growth in the micro small and medium enterprise or MSME and retail sectors.

A new report from Crisil Ratings has said companies will continue to opt for bank credit rather than issuance of bonds amidst the prevailing interest rate differential and overall credit growth will be a little slower than the estimate of 14 percent for fiscal 26 according to the report. It also says that while tailwinds from regulatory and government measures announced in fiscal 26 should sustain and support growth the extent of benefit will taper over time and the impact will be seen across sub-segments corporate MSME and retail. The duration and intensity of the west asia conflict and its effect on the macroeconomic landscape can also impact the credit growth calculus.

Moreover it says and more on that shortly a pickup in deposit growth will be crucial given the recent widening of its gap with credit growth. Crisil also says credit growth in the corporate sector that's 36 percent of domestic bank credit is seen growing at nine to ten percent in line with the ten percent in fiscal 26. I reached out to Krishnan Sitaraman the senior director and chief ratings officer at Crisil Ratings and I began by asking him why credit was set to slow in the coming year.

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Krishnan Sitaraman: As far as bank credit goes, at 13%, if you look at the last, say, decade or so, it's still a reasonable rate of growth. That said, it will be a tad lower than the 14% we are estimating for fiscal 26. The final results are yet to come in, but we do believe fiscal 26 will come in at 14%.

A couple of headwinds, I would say, for the credit growth for FY27. One is, of course, the West Asia conflict. The extent and the duration of that will have an impact on overall credit demand, and that will play a role.

In fact, if you look at RBI's prognosis for GDP growth for FY27, that has come in at 6.9%, as against the 7.6% for FY26. So typically, if you see, historically, there is a linkage between the bank credit growth and the economic growth or GDP growth, and if the GDP growth comes down, typically the credit growth also comes down. So that is one of the key determinants of our expectation of credit growth to come down.

That said, there is also another angle, which is the deposit growth. For bank credit growth to be at reasonably high levels, the deposit growth should also come in very close to that. Now, what has happened in the last, say, six months or so, is that deposit growth has been trailing credit growth.

And as for the last data points as of mid-March, we are seeing credit growth to be 300 basis points higher than deposit growth. That's 13.8% versus 10.8%. And that is not sustainable for an extended period of time. So either the bank deposit growth has to catch up, or the credit growth has to moderate, so that the gap is not very significant.

So these are the two key variables which will impact or will be headwinds for credit growth. That said, there are a number of tailwinds also. We are seeing good enough demand coming from the MSME segment, retail credit buoyed by the GST rationalisation and last year's tax cuts that's still playing out.

Consumption demand is fairly decent. So that is helping credit growth to stay at reasonably high levels. Another dimension of West Asia conflict is that the working capital demands have gone up for the banking sector.

So that also plays a role, especially in the MSME segment, to keep working capital loans high. And one more angle is the higher interest rate in the bond markets. So if we look at from last July, that is Q3 of last fiscal onwards, we are seeing bond market interest rates moving up.

And if I look at comparatively the bank lending rates, they are now quite low, relatively lower than the bond rates. So corporates actually prefer to borrow from the banks today as compared to the bond market. So bond market issuances have come down and that has helped provide a tailwind to bank credit growth as well.

So a number of tailwinds as well playing a role here.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Right. Krishnan, if you were to break up the bank credit and where it's going and what's driving it particularly in terms of acceleration versus other areas which may not be, what would that be? Or what would that look like?

Krishnan Sitaraman: Keeping bank credit growth at reasonably elevated levels are the MSME demand coming in from the MSME segment and the retail segment. And these have grown relatively at a faster clip in FY26 as well. So MSME, there is a good amount of activity, underlying economic activity coming in.

And despite the fact that the West Asia conflict is playing out, that will impact export-orientated MSMEs which have exposure to that area. But having said that, there are still a number of MSMEs which are having their demand coming in from domestic consumption. So those entities will continue to benefit.

As I said earlier, the working capital demand will go up due to the conflict. That will also result in higher credit demand. On the retail segment, we are seeing a good trajectory or good momentum in retail or consumption credit demand.

And that is coming in from the GST rationalisation which has impacted sectors like auto, where sales have gone up. And that has led to demand for credit in those segments as well. And of course, we are seeing good amount of demand from the personal loan segment.

That has also resulted in retail credit demand being at a reasonably high level. So retail credit and MSME credit are driving, being the tail The headwinds, of course, as I mentioned, the GDP economic growth would be lower. So that actually indirectly plays a role in corporate credit.

Because of the uncertainties, a broad-based expansion in private capex is still some way away, which is what drives corporate credit, large corporate credit. So that will still be subdued. So that would essentially be headwind.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Sadanand I'll come back to retail in a second. You mentioned the gap between deposit growth and credit growth. Where could that end up?

As in you said it's, I mean, it's difficult to manage 300 basis points or it's untenable in some ways. So what happens next then?

Krishnan Sitaraman: So we need to keep in mind that the base of deposits is higher than the base of credit in the banking system. So if there is a somewhat lower deposit growth vis-a-vis credit growth, that is still manageable, say to the extent of say 100, 150 basis points, that is manageable. However, 300 basis points is a relatively higher gap that needs to be bridged.

This is not sustainable over a long period of time. So either deposit growth has to go up or credit growth has to come down. There are key steps that banks can take to kind of address the situation.

One is the RBI has announced a graded reduction in the CRR, cash reserve ratio level. That will kind of release certain amount of liquidity, which can be used by banks. A number of banks are also sitting on excess SLR, statutory equity ratio, as compared to regulatory requirements.

They can liquidate that to make funds available for credit. And the other aspects that they can look at is issuances of bonds. Bonds are another source of resources or liquidity for banks or funding.

So they can use that. They can issue infrastructure bonds, subordinated bonds, and so on. And another angle is securitisation.

So typically we have seen that when credit deposit ratios go up in the past, certain private banks have resorted to securitisation to lower credit growth and ensure that credit deposit ratio comes back on track. So that's another avenue banks can look at to kind of address this.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Right. And I know you put out a report on securitisation as well a few days ago. Can I come to the retail part?

You talked about auto loans being one key driver and you also talked about personal loans. So auto loans, of course, are, I mean, there is an auto which is behind it, but personal loans are unsecured. When you say healthy growth, is that also cause for, I mean, not concern, but is that something that we need to be mindful of?

Krishnan Sitaraman: That is essentially one of the aspects of an asset quality point of view. We are keeping a close eye on and there are two, three segments. One is the small ticket personal loans and the other is the micro lab or the loan property segment.

Both of these are small ticket in nature. So these are two segments and unsecured business loans, which are of a small size. These are the areas that we are keeping a close watch on essentially because underlying borrowers, they are not very financially resilient.

They are more vulnerable, relatively more vulnerable to underlying macroeconomic stress. However, if you look at the large ticket loans, whether it's personal loans or business loans, there the underlying borrowers are more financially resilient. So even if there is some issues in the macroeconomic landscape or some stress building up, they will be able to manage that stress.

So that's the angle that we are looking at. The higher ticket, even on the personal loans you've talked about, higher ticket personal loans, we don't see too much of a challenge, even if the growth is higher. However, it is a small ticket personal loans where there could be issues, where there could be over leveraged borrowers who could have multiple loans.

And there we could see some inching up in delinquencies as we move ahead. However, that said, if I look at the banking sector as a whole, the proportion of small ticket personal loan is not very high. That is more of an NBFC domain, wherein they lend to borrowers who are lower down on the credit spectrum and the ticket sizes are lower.

So on the banking sector side, I don't see much of small ticket personal loans. There the watch out would be the unsecured business loans of a smaller denomination and the micro.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Last question, you said that demand for working loans had gone up in the last month. How much of data do you already have? Or are you projecting ahead?

Krishnan Sitaraman: So we are looking at the MSME credit growth coming in at around 22% for this fiscal. And a large portion of that would be working capital loan because that is how number of the MSMEs their business model is. When there is additional external stress, the debtor levels or the inventory levels goes up for that segment and they have to finance it by borrowing.

So we are seeing that bulk of the MSME credit growth coming in from the working capital demand because the capex is still some way away. Only when there is a greater degree of certainty regarding the macroeconomic situation will we see capex going up. And that will give a further boost to credit growth, which is not baked into our projections now.

Our assumptions factor in a four to five months of this West Asia conflict progressing, including the stabilisation period, because things will not stabilise the moment the war ends. There has to be a stabilisation period. So we are baking in that.

So we do believe that all of the MSME credit demand will be driven by the working capitals.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Krishnan, thank you so much for joining me.

Krishnan Sitaraman: Thank you so much. Thank you.

Mitigating for Extreme Heat Worldwide

India is looking at heat wave conditions in several parts of the country. The Indian meteorological department has indicated a sharp rise in maximum temperatures with northwest India likely to see an increase of four to five degrees celsius in maximum temperatures. A gradual rise is also expected over central and east India signalling the onset of hotter days and peak summer conditions.

Extreme heat is emerging as one of the most immediate climate risks globally but policy and adaptation systems are struggling to keep pace with the scale and speed of the problem. The natural resources defence council or NRDC is convening the global heat and cooling forum 2026 in Delhi next week and will bring together policymakers, multilateral institutions and practitioners to focus on implementation pathways. I reached out to Adelle Thomas, director of adaptation at the NRDC and also vice chair of the intergovernmental panel on climate change or IPCC working group based out of Washington DC and I began by asking her how dire the situation was.

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Adelle Thomas: I think heat is what people often call a quiet crisis. Floods and storms, they leave visible damage. You know, you can see the collapsed bridges, you can see the destroyed homes.

And so those type of disasters trigger emergency funding and greater political response. And heat, unfortunately, doesn't look dramatic in the same way. But what it's doing is it's quietly eroding productivity.

It overwhelms hospitals, it shortens lives. And so I think because we don't see these, you know, big impacts of heat in the same way that we see other disasters, there's not as much attention, not as much funding that goes towards adapting to the impacts of heat.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Right. And where are we right now in 2026? India, of course, is seeing heat waves, and I'm sure that's the case with many other parts of the world.

So the problem, presumably, is even more urgent than ever before.

Adelle Thomas: It's incredibly urgent. And extreme heat has really moved from being a climate risk to being a systemic economic and public health risk, especially in countries like India. So in India, we can already see what that looks like on the ground.

Heat exposure is costing the country hundreds of billions of labour hours every year. In 2024 alone, we saw lost labour from heat translated into nearly $200 billion in income losses, largely in sectors that are heavily affected by heat, like agriculture and construction. And so that's a GDP-level impact and not just a marginal one.

And from the health side, the picture is just as stark. We're seeing across the world heat-driving spikes in heat stroke, cardiovascular stress, maternal health complications, and many of these deaths never even get recorded as heat deaths. And so the real toll that heat is taking is much higher than official numbers would suggest.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Right. And tell us about the gaps in governance, including data and finance, for heat resilience. .

Adelle Thomas: I think that there have been some positive moves on governance. And I think India in particular deserves real credits for being an early mover on heat action plans. But unfortunately, having a plan doesn't automatically translate into protection.

So many of the heat action plans that we see still focus heavily on short-term and emergency measures, things like advisories, having water kiosks, awareness campaigns, and those types of things matter, but they're not enough. What is missing is sustained funding, enforcement, and long-term interventions. We're also particularly seeing gaps in how plans will address nighttime heat, which is rising faster than daytime heat, in a lot of the world, including India.

And hot nights are especially dangerous because the body cannot cool itself down. And yet many plans do not account for that risk. So I think the evidence that we see from around the world and from India is really clear that early warning systems and targeted interventions work extremely clear, extremely well.

The problem isn't a lack of proof. It's about scaling these solutions consistently across cities and states. .

Govindraj Ethiraj: Right. And what are some of the outcomes that you feel could be achieved or you hope to achieve at the Global Heat and Cooling Forum this year? .

Adelle Thomas: The Global Heat and Cooling Forum this year is really focused on solutions. So we have identified problems, and now we're looking into solutions. We're also looking at how can we have self-learning.

So we have incorporation of colleagues from Africa so that we can get that global south perspective into what solutions are working. Some of the solutions that we want to put forward is that when we talk about cooling, the first thing to understand is that it's not just about air conditioning. The smartest cooling solutions actually start with keeping heat out in the first place.

Govindraj Ethiraj: Okay. And are there any other areas that could come up in terms of technological innovation or other kinds of innovation that you refer to?

Adelle Thomas: Yeah. So there are things like cool roofs, shade, better building design, natural ventilation, especially in low-income houses. These things are low-cost measures that can drop indoor temperatures by several degrees without using much energy.

And then the second layer is about urban cooling. So these are like putting in more trees, having green spaces, shaded streets, and cooling public areas. These aren't just cosmetic fixes.

They are essential infrastructure in hot cities to reduce that temperature. And then after those measures are put in place, we can get to mechanical cooling. And the focus really needs to be on efficient, affordable, climate-smart cooling, things like super-efficient air conditions, clean energy, and better refrigerants.

And so the goal isn't cooling at any cost. It's about reducing heat exposure, having smarter cooling, and having fair access.

Govindraj Ethiraj: All right, Adelle. Thank you so much for joining me.

Adelle Thomas: Thanks so much for having me.