In this episode of The Media Room, Vanita Kohli-Khandekar speaks with Nikkhil Advani, filmmaker and founder of Emmay Entertainment, for a wide-ranging conversation on storytelling, stardom, and the shifting economics of the Indian film industry.

Nikkhil reflects on his journey from films like Kal Ho Naa Ho to building a content studio that has delivered projects such as Rocket Boys, Mumbai Diaries, and Freedom at Midnight. He shares how the company is evolving as it marks 15 years, with a slate of ambitious new projects spanning streaming and theatrical releases.

The conversation dives into the realities of filmmaking today - from the continued dominance of star-led economics in theatrical releases to the challenges of scaling the Hindi film industry globally. Nikkhil explains why India still remains a relatively small player on the global stage, the importance of expanding screen infrastructure, and how subscription behaviour and platform strategies are shaping content decisions.

They also explore the creative process behind modern storytelling - how feedback loops with platforms work, why collaboration is essential, and how research-driven writing is shaping both historical and contemporary narratives. Nikkhil discusses the balance between creative instinct and data, and why understanding audiences has become more complex in a fragmented, content-heavy ecosystem.

NOTE: This transcript is done by a machine. Human eyes have gone through the script but there might still be errors in some of the text, so please refer to the audio in case you need to clarify any part. If you want to get in touch regarding any feedback, you can drop us a message on feedback@thecore.in.

TRANSCRIPT

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Hello and welcome to the media room. Nikhil Advani has been a part of our lives as audiences for more than 30 years now. He has written, assisted on and directed several movies that all of us are very familiar with from Is Raat Ki Subha Nahi to Mohabbatein and Kuch Kuch Hota Hai and his directorial venture was Kal Ho Na Ho which was a super hit in 2004 and since then he has gone on to make several films, tv shows etc and even set up his own company MA Entertainment.

He is to my mind one of the most erudite, well-read filmmakers and creators I've met. Some of his recent shows have been at another level you know, Freedom at Midnight, Rocket Boys, Mumbai Diaries, even the films D-Day, I don't know how many of you have seen D-Day, it was a lovely film but his ability to connect the dots on the creative ecosystem is what I enjoy most and connect them also to the commercial side of the business and that is why just after I had watched the second season of Freedom at Midnight, I sat down with Nikhil to ask him what MA is up to right now, what is he thinking about and how is he handling this change that the audience has seen in the last three to five years post COVID.

We had a fascinating chat, over to Nikhil on what's next from MA. Hi Nikhil, welcome to the media room, first time on the show with us.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, yeah, thank you.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Nikhil, tell us you know, last we spoke MA was still working on Freedom at Midnight, it hadn't come out, revolutionaries you told me about but we're still waiting for revolutionaries on Amazon, where is MA right now, just give my viewers a sense of where MA is and then we'll get into more.

Nikkhil Advani: Emmay is celebrating 15 years this year.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah.

Nikkhil Advani: So, it's we have a saying in the office that says Emmay 15 at 15. So, we are going to announce 15 projects.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Really? Yeah. Okay, tell me the top three.

Nikkhil Advani: Well, the top three are right now in post-production, one is revolutionaries which will which will come out mid this year. Amazon keeps telling me that they will not tell me the date till they are certain I'll be able to deliver the masters which which now they are certain. So, they have to tell me a date.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: What is revolutionaries about?

Nikkhil Advani: Revolutionaries is about the revolutionary which is about Rashmi Haribol, Sachindranath Sanyal, Bhagat Jatin. So, it's pre-Gandhi. Gandhi came June 1915.

The revolutionary story spans from 1912 to from 23rd December 1912 to the Feb 19th of 1915. It's a story, it's untold story of Rashmi Haribol, Sachindranath Sanyal, Bhagat Jatin and Pratibha Sanyal and young, they were young, they were young kids 17, 18, 19, 21, 25, 28 who decided to throw the British out.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah.

Nikkhil Advani: So, I have, it's a very big move from me, I mean being involved in Rocket Boys and Freedom at Midnight and for me to do revolutionaries was how can I make it different from Freedom at Midnight. So, while Freedom at Midnight is very authentic, revolution is very audacious. It's, it amazed me that they had, they didn't know how to use guns but they wanted to shoot the Viceroy.

They didn't know how to make bombs or use a bomb but they made bombs inside their homes and so I've tried to make it more like a RRR and more like Kranti and more like, yeah, it's got seven songs, it's got a love story, it's got, it's very varied. I mean the teaser is out and it launched with Amazon's PVP on 19th of March and it's got Bhuvan Bam and it's got Rohit Saraf and it's got Pratibha Ranta and it's so young, youngsters, yeah, so that's the first one. There's Hum Hindustani which Rahul Dholakia is directing for us, it's a Netflix film.

So, it's a film about the first elections of India. So, again it's a periodist thing, I guess that we've been now slaughtered.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah, yeah, I have a couple of questions on that one.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, we are going to break it. And the third is a horror show again for Amazon called Anarth which has got Kalki and Gulshan Devaiya and Parom and this incredible young actor Preeti Panagri who was in Richa Chaddha's and Suchi Talati's Girls Will Be Girls. So, she's this incredible actor and yeah, so that is there.

Again, that's an Amazon, it's a horror completely like very, very jump scared horror kind of show. And that's the first three and then now we get into what we've decided more or less is that we don't want to shoot during monsoons and all right because we really find it very tough to, the monsoons have become so unpredictable in the country. Sometimes it starts in May, sometimes it might start in July and all these kind of stuff.

So, as a strategy, we are going to just prep during monsoons and then start flying after the monsoons. So, this is four months of what most other people call zero period for us is just what we discovered. I mean, actually the seven months during lockdown was extremely productive for us in terms of just prepping, prepping, prepping that allowed us to prep for Rocket Boys, came up with all guns blazing and Empire at that time was halfway into production when we had to stop.

So, we really, really did all the post and all that. So, yeah, these four months are going to be about just prep. We come out of the four months with, during the four months we'll announce, we'll announce the 15 projects.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: So, a bulk of these 15 projects are on contemporary history or...

Nikkhil Advani: There's no history.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Past history or...

Nikkhil Advani: Nothing. Oh, contemporary history in terms of what MA has been doing. MA has been developing.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: No, no.

Nikkhil Advani: In terms of subjects. Yeah, subjects. No, nothing.

All contemporary. No history.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Why revolutionaries is...

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's the bulk of is, when you're asking me the bulk of revolutionaries and Mohammed Dastani are and after that there is...

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Nothing.

Nikkhil Advani: All the stuff that we are doing.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Horror is a genre you've attempted earlier.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, we did, we did Adhura before this.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Ah, yes.

Nikkhil Advani: And so we, I mean, in the same two, Gaurav and Ananya who created and directed Adhura, who have made Anarth. And yeah, yeah, so and I think Amazon is very gung-ho about it. So, we've got out of the other, I hope that we can even do more than 15, but yeah, the idea will be to go back to theatres.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: 15 in one year.

Nikkhil Advani: 15 might take a year, year and a half, two years eventually. But yeah, 15 will be announced and from, most of them are ready to be getting into the whole casting process. Some of them already have found homes in terms of studios and platforms.

Others are in conversation with studios and platforms. I think 10 or 12 are already attached with collaborators and other stakeholders. But yeah.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: You know, is there, like Madhok has a certain kind of, you know, or even, I can't say that for T-series or, but is there a certain sort of type of projects you sort of, M.A. sort of gears towards or is it, is there, is there a pattern, can?

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, difficult.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Every creator says that, every producer says that.

Nikkhil Advani: But I mean, whether it's Mrs. Chatterjee's Norway, which is a difficult project to do, Airlift, which is a difficult project to do, although you have Akshay Kumar, it's a difficult project to do because you don't want Akshay Kumar to play Akshay Kumar in that, in Airlift. He's playing Ranjeet Katyal, right? Whether it is Mumbai Diaries, whether it is Freedom at Midnight, so it's, yeah, so we, Manisha, Madhu and myself, who are the three founders and partners of M.A., we gravitated towards something we want to watch, right? We just, we gravitated towards, we, we felt in the last three years that we were not able to understand what was happening theatrically with, with stories, sort of storytelling and with audiences. So we, we just said, okay, we'll, we'll take a step back. We'll concentrate on the OTT space, on the streaming space and we consolidated.

We, we did Rocket Boys and we did Mumbai Diaries season two and we did Freedom at Midnight and, and we've done, you know, so we did all those kind of things and now we felt, I think last year, a lot of even my contemporary filmmakers, producers, directors have, we, we felt that, okay, audiences are, you know, responding to a, whether they're responding to Dhurandhar, they're also responding to S.I.R.A., they're also responding to, to quality, right?

More or less, I mean, whether, whether you may agree with the story, the content, etc., etc., but at least they're, they're saying, okay, there's a value for money being coming from these particular kind of films. Hard work is paying, paying off, right? Don't take us for granted.

So we are, we are hoping that this year we come up with, we've already got five or six films that we are…

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah, I was about to say, are there feature films, you're back in the…

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, fully, completely.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: So I'm going to come to the audience in a bit, but you know, you, from what you tell me, three of you prefer more research-driven, factual, you know, that kind of stuff and I think…

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, but…

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: You are among the few creators…

Nikkhil Advani: It's the sense that, yeah, because I think our development team asks, asks very, very pertinent questions, even if it is not, we have even, one of the, one of the, one of the, one of the, one or maybe one, two, three, are young contemporary stories about coming of age, about adventure, stranger things kind of world. We ask those, we ask questions about that, we are, we do research about that also, in the sense we want to talk to young people before we start writing, to understand. So, so all our stories, whether it is history or whether it is contemporary, we, we really want to understand who these characters are and who these people are, do I know these characters, that character could be my grandmother, that could be somebody's friends, that could be somebody, that somebody's mother's friend in a kitty party, depending on who the, the storyteller, writer, director is working for or working, who the story is about, we as, as a development team, we ask a lot of questions, we say, ki matlab yeh hota hai kya, kaun, kaan se aapne dekha, somebody has to show us some Twitter reel or some Instagram reel, yeh hota hai, yeh hota hai, so we ask a lot of questions about, so our research is not only about factual things, even in the fictional stuff, we are saying that let, yeah, let us know who this person is.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yes, like Vikram said, spent years researching before he wrote Suitable Boy, but my question to you is, especially when you do shows like Rocket Boys or Revolutionaries or Freedom at Midnight, in the current sort of scenario where people are quick to sort of point out what they feel are inaccuracies or get offended, how do you, you know, keep it grounded, how do you keep it true to the, to what actually happened?

Are there do's and don'ts when you are…

Nikkhil Advani: Of course, yeah, I mean, you know Danish very well and I would not be able to make Freedom at Midnight without Danish Khan and Shogato at Sony, they were very clear that, you know, from the time that we decided to adapt the book, to the time that we wrote the Bible, to the time that we started working on the scripts, at every step of the way, it was Danish's room that we would meet in and we would discuss and we would narrate and we would say, no, this doesn't work, this works, if we are, where do you find this out, it's not in the book, if it's not in the book, then we need to get three sources. So, we put our guardrails and our paraphernalia and yet, and we had, we got accolades from all sides, left, right, centre, everywhere.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar:

Do you do content testing, script testing, when you say research process or when you are about to greenlight, do you do that? I mean, I know some people…

Nikkhil Advani: Amazon does it for us, Amazon does the content testing for us in any case because all we do, we are doing six projects right now with Amazon and we, all the stuff that we are doing with them, when the first level of the scripts and drafts are and we feel that it is in a good shape to take out for a focus group, they take it out and they come back to us and say, okay, you know, this is what they felt, this is what they didn't feel.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: How do you take on that feedback? Because I have had mixed reactions from filmmakers and creators on the whole script and content testing. These are, of course, focus groups.

Nikkhil Advani: See, it depends. There is no question that when you are working on streaming and when you are long form with a, or you are working on anything with platforms, they already have creative teams who are going to be there, who are looking at your story and your script and your drafts from step one. And if you feel that, oh, that is going to, that somewhere or the other is, how do I put it, is, and they will all tell you that we are all for the voice of the creator and the voice of filmmaker and the voice of the storyteller.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: And then they will all get it.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah. And I want, I want to do that. Why would I not want to do that?

In the sense that I have had, I have had to take feedback from people in the film industry over the last 33 years. Who's like, I've had to. Right.

So if somebody who has gone to school of visual arts in New York and has studied screenwriting is telling me that this, this is not working, you know, I'll think about it. I'll talk about it. I'll listen to it.

I think that I think it's clear, very clear, given the fact our body of work that, that the choice finally to accept it or not to accept is mine.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Correct.

Nikkhil Advani: But I listen to every single person. My whole, my whole point about feedback is don't come to me with the feedback when I'm about to deliver the master. Okay.

Right. Really, actually, for me, the feedback is, because I think about everything, right? When they come, when somebody makes a simple comment to me about an edit or the music or the performance or something, I might, I might turn around and say that, you know, I don't, it doesn't matter to me.

This is what I'm sticking with. But I think about it. And I'll come back possibly the next day, I'll call up that person and they know that I'll message them.

I say, I'm sorry. I think that you're right. I'm going to make this change.

Right. Or I might just turn and say, listen, I think that we should have a conversation and we should figure out why I feel that this is important for it to be the way it is. So I think that you have to understand it is going to be collaborative no matter what happens.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Which is fair enough. But does a feedback loop work a post, post landing, post a show landing? How well does it work?

Nikkhil Advani: I remember asking Monica and It's very important because as a show landing, you're going to get into a season two, you're going to get into a season three. In most cases, a platform is not going to greenlight a show unless they know it's like a closed ended, you know, mini kind of film series or whatever, or if they if their first question is, how is this multi seasonal? And when you're writing, even in our development groups, we are basically saying, I asked this question.

Now, actually, I know everything that they are going to ask, more or less, you anticipate, I anticipate it. And that I think is the biggest trend that has allowed us to reach where we have recently in the case of the streaming. Because now I know, and I say very now I actually say, Danish will not allow this.

Or I will say that Shikha will not go with this. Like for instance, I know while I was shooting revolutionaries, Gaurik, who's my DOP, at one point we were shooting in a room which is slightly bigger than this because they are hiding over there. And Gaurik said, I don't have the place to move to do big camera moves, I can't bring a dolly here.

So we'll use a zoom and we'll possibly just do crash zooms. And I remember telling him, Sahira hates crash zooms, it will be cut out of the edit. But I still went and shot it.

I still did it the way he did. When the edit went to Saira, she said, why are you doing these crash zooms? You know.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But this is you're anticipating what they are going to say. Sometimes you must be pushing back. Has that happened?

Nikkhil Advani: Of course.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Saying that this, all the time, for example, all the time.

Nikkhil Advani: No, it's see, I think that by the time I reached the stage of shoot and edit, I've already got them to buy into my vision. Got them to buy into my casting, got them to buy into the, I've already given, I've bombarded them with the reference music. I've said, aisa music hoga.

I've told them aisa, yeh hoga. Today with the world that we are living in, with everything that is available to young kids, I don't, when I tell you, earlier we used to do PPT and they make it in one, one second now. And it's got nothing to do with AI.

They were doing it in just fine from Pinterest, they were getting all this kind of stuff. So, I have already got them buy into what the story is and how I want to tell the story. Also, most, lot of the stuff today that we do at MA comes from the platform.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Okay. Meaning, the idea comes from…

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, they've already bought a book or they've, they've basically said ki, I know you guys have done, you've done Freedom at Midnight, why can't you do something like this for us or whatever.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Because they see some skill sets building up in the…

Nikkhil Advani: Absolutely.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: You know, you, just to move from streaming and you mentioned the audience before and, you know, you said for three years. What I see is, and I'm sure all of us see it, is a deluge. So, whether it's short, long, micro, huge deluge.

Okay. There's a deluge of stuff to watch and experience and there's gluttony happening. So, between the, from us as audience, I mean, we also consume a lot.

Between that, I think our neuro sort of, neurological rewiring is happening as audiences, frankly. Yeah. Across and I think it demands something which many of us as creators are still to figure out.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Given that, how do you navigate that creatively, whether it is theatrical and if you're looking again at theatrical, what is the big sort of insight you've had or streaming? And, you know, you know this, that there are thousand formats emerging in between also. I mean, micro dramas alone is like a 8, 10, 12 billion dollar business in China, for instance, and it is eating into the film and the TV market.

So, just how do you navigate that space creatively? What does it demand of you as a creator?

Nikkhil Advani: I think I'm lucky to be able to say that I don't know this. So, I'm going to just not, I'm not going to get into this. I don't know this.

If, and that's the conversation that among three of us as partners we do. I just say that, listen, I don't know this zone. But I mean, I think if this is something that MA would like to do, then I'm happy to, I mean, get experts to do this, right?

If you, if we want to do micro drama, we should, we should invest in a company or look at collaborating with a company who knows how to do micro drama and use, where we will come in is we will be able to open some doors among platforms and among studios to make, to bring that content to them, right? But I don't know it personally. I'm not, and I'm talking only personally.

I don't know. So, I just step back and I say, this is, that's what I did with theatrical. I said, I don't know right now what is happening with the audiences right now.

So, I, and I want to be able to tell the stories that I want to tell. And I don't think that the, what I want to do right now with the stories, anybody is interested in hearing those stories at this point. When we are ready, we'll, we'll figure it out.

And so, I think that now I feel that, yeah, I think I'm, I'm ready to, the conversations I've been having with studios and platforms, I'm saying, okay, yeah, we, we have this subject, we have this subject and I'm ready to go.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: They're good for theatrical.

Nikkhil Advani: All for theatrical.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah? Yeah. And what, what is, what are these subjects?

I mean, why do you feel confident about taking them to the theatre?

Nikkhil Advani: Because I feel that I, I finally know what I want to do with music.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Okay.

Nikkhil Advani: Right? And I think music is a major driver, has always been a major driver of all the kind of films that we've actually loved. Right?

I feel that audiences are going back to the theatres. You know, I feel that they're going back to the theatres. I keep hearing that from PVR, from Kamal and all of them, that they're coming back, they're coming back.

So, I feel that, okay, they're going back to the theatres and they're going back, whether it is, I mean, whether they're going back in the numbers that they obviously, like, you know.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: There's been marginal fall in footfalls.

Nikkhil Advani: There's marginal fall?

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, there's been. 3% or 6% or something.

And it's continued to, though I think 23 was a very good year.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: More than 900 million tickets sold. Yeah. Now, we are at 830, 840 odd.

So, million. And, you know, you touched upon, but I want to.

Nikkhil Advani: But you know what, what I, what I like is that I think that most importantly what has happened is that whether it is Saiyara or whether it is Milap's Deewaniyat, there's connect. Audiences connect to it and they go and they see it or whatever. So, there was a huge connect with Durandar also and people have gone to see it.

And I feel that that, if you can, if you can crack that connect, whether that connect is in the music, whether that connect is in the story, whether that connect is fresh casting, whether that connect is, yeah. So, I mean, and I come back and I come back to, I think that what, what, what, what sets MA apart is that irrespective of what we've done, whether it's worked or not, everybody's turned around and said, yeah, there's no denying that very hard work has gone into this, the telling of this particular story, right? A lot of, lot of blood, sweat and tears.

It looks as if that these guys have really, so their intention, you know what I'm trying to say? Yeah. Inka intention correct tha, hume connect nahi vada.

If we can get the connect going, then I think we are.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But Nikkhil, you know, you started with Aziz Mirza and Saeed Mirza and then Karan, you assisted him and then made Kal Hoon Na Ho yourself. And you assisted Adi also on Mohabbatein, correct?

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, Mohabbatein.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: That time you guys connected very well with each other.

Nikkhil Advani: Absolutely.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: You got it bang on, film after film after film. And then suddenly everything changes. So that Nikhil Advani and today's Nikhil Advani and you know, trying, how is that mind space?

I'm just curious about, because you, you got it right. And is it an age factor or is it just the world has changed?

Nikkhil Advani: World has changed. We have changed and the world has changed. I have stayed away from love stories because I feel, I don't know, my daughter is 20 years old and I, and we are doing a love story right now, which is very incredible, which is a story about friendship.

And is love, is love all that is made out to be? And is love at the end of the day, should you be chasing love or should you be chasing friendship? Okay.

Right. At the end of the day, is the friend that is that more important? And, and would you, would you, and do you confuse love for friendship?

All these kind of stuff.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Kuch kuch hota hai kya tha yaar?

Nikkhil Advani: Dosti pyaar hai, pyaar dosti hai. But we are reversing it.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Ah, okay.

Nikkhil Advani: Right? We are reversing it in this case. So I was, somebody came, one of the other directors in the company has been working on it, working on it for the last 6-7 years.

It's gone through draft after draft after draft and it was ready and I said it's not ready.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Okay.

Nikkhil Advani: I said it's not ready.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But how can you take that call now?

Nikkhil Advani: I don't know.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Because you are not Gen Z. We are not Gen Z. So sometimes I feel that the way they think.

And every generation, love is defined differently.

Nikkhil Advani:Hota hi hai. Absolutely. So we narrated it to some people, some of the young kids in the office and they said, yeah, when we narrated it sometime back, they didn't get it.

Now when we narrated it, they got it. So, and we are, we are still, we are still working on it and still figuring it out and still the singing it. So yeah, but, but I went and I said to Shankar S.

Anloy that it's time that we get back together. Wow, you got them on board?

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Lovely. I love their music.

Nikkhil Advani: And I've not used them at all for the last so much, so many years now. Last time we worked together was 2015.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: You've been doing pretty grim stuff, na? Yeah. Rocket boys.

Nikkhil Advani: Absolutely. No, but in Revolution, there are 7 songs.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Haan, you told me.

Nikkhil Advani: There are 7 songs, 7 songs, which have been curated by T-Series. Because I went to Bhushan and I told Bhushanji that, you know, mujhe gaane chahiye. Isme mujhe gaane chahiye and I don't want you to, I don't want to come to you with a streaming show and say that, you know, I need songs which I put in the background.

I've shot the songs. They've been shot. They've been, there's like proper song sequences.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But Hira Mandi was like that. The music did well, reasonably well for a streaming show.

Nikkhil Advani: That's what I'm saying. So, I've done all this. So, I've gone back and it's incredible.

The Revolution's album is too good. It's too much fun.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: I must check it out. So, you feel more comfortable creatively in this particular groove now? You feel confident about attempting theatrical and sticking to the knitting as far as the streaming stuff?

Not yet. No?

Nikkhil Advani: Not yet. I still feel that, I still feel that, I feel that it's definitely better than what I was feeling three years ago. Not yet.

I still want to, I want to do a, the love story that I want to do is about 55-year-olds and 56-year-olds.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Corona.

Nikkhil Advani: Right? So, I'm doing that. I'm making a love story.

And I called up the particular actor that I can't mention right now and I spoke to him and I said that, I'm doing a love story.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Big star or?

Nikkhil Advani: I'm coming to you with a love story. And he said, you know now I'm 60. I said, yeah.

I'm dying to see this one. He said, no, you know now I'm 60. I said, yeah, and I'm coming to you with this.

Tell me it's Shah Rukh. You know, I would, I would, no, no, really, I would love for it to, you know, but.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: I don't think you worked with him after Kalma, no? No. Have you tried to?

Nikkhil Advani: No.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: No, nothing, nothing.

Nikkhil Advani: Okay.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: You know, it's just for one business.

Nikkhil Advani: I don't want to go to Shah Rukh and hear a no from him.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But I have heard that he doesn't say no. He finds it very difficult to say no.

Nikkhil Advani: So, I wanted, so I feel that given the fact that we'd worked on four very special films together as associate, as assistant associate and director, I don't want to hear a no from him. So, I'm very scared that if I go to him with something and he says, no, no, no.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: This is a digression, but because we're talking about Shah Rukh and you mentioned Akshay, you know, sometimes, and this is true for Tom Cruise equally or somebody else, you have that rare Tom Hanks or somebody else who manages to do different roles and be still seen as an actor, even though they become stars. And then you have stars who become so much stars that like, you know, Anurag said that I can't make a film with Shah Rukh because I'm afraid of his fans. You know, what, how they will react.

That stardom becomes a trap. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. They've worked hard to earn that stardom and they're enjoying it.

But do you, I mean, is there something that you wonder about and you think that if this person, you know, for example, Ashok Kumar, he was a superstar in his era, but you never thought of him as a, you know, he was that character. How does one navigate that, especially if you have a script where you think a Shah Rukh or an Akshay fits?

Nikkhil Advani: I think, I think that when we went to, Air Lift was first narrated by Irrfan.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Oh, really?

Nikkhil Advani: And Irrfan heard it and Irrfan and I were doing D-Day at that time. Raja Menon came to us with the story of Air Lift and we said, fantastic, and we want to do it.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: I love D-Day, by the way.

Nikkhil Advani: And we went to Irrfan and he was in Sofitel Hotel. We were shooting downstairs in the basement of Sofitel Hotel. And I said, can you come two or three hours earlier before the shift?

Can we hear Raja's story? And he said, I can't do this film because I don't have the shoulders to carry this film.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: He meant that you need a star to do this.

Nikkhil Advani: He said, you need to go to Akshay.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Why did he say that?

Nikkhil Advani: He said, I don't have the shoulders to carry.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But that's very perceptive of him.

Nikkhil Advani: He said, you will not be able to get the budget that you need to make this film with me.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: That is really perceptive.

Nikkhil Advani: When I went to Akshay with, I didn't go to Akshay. Actually, we went to Akshay with another film. It was called Gappi Mein Layaar Nai Shah Rukh.

And he heard it and he said, it's too young. The film needs a young actor. It doesn't need an actor like me.

What do these conversations tell you? So the conversations I have with all, whether it is Akshay or whether it is Irrfan, are very open and very clear. He said, what else do you have?

I said, I don't have anything else.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: You didn't offer him an airlift then?

Nikkhil Advani: You didn't offer him an airlift? No. We were in Bangkok and he was shooting a film called That's Entertainment.

And we were driving towards the shoot. He said, no, no, 100 percent. It's not like you work on one thing.

I know you. What else is there? So I said, sir, there is a film called Raja Menon.

And I told him the story of Airlift. He said, hmm. And he went to shoot.

And I was going to leave the next morning from Bangkok. And he called me in the night and he said, don't go. I want to talk to you in the morning.

So in the morning he said, I want to do the film. I said, I can't give you the film.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: What?

Nikkhil Advani: I said, I can't give you the film. Raja wants to do workshops with the actors and this and that and this and that. I can't give you the film.

He said, I'll do everything.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: And he did it?

Nikkhil Advani: Well, everything he did.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: So then that thing of balancing the two or getting out of it to get your teeth into it.

Nikkhil Advani: What I'm trying to say is when the particular actor or star sees merit in what we are bringing to them, they'll change everything. That they will change the whole perception of what they are.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Look at Fan.

Nikkhil Advani: Kabir and Bajrangi Bhaijaan with Salman is exactly that. Is exactly that. He went to him and he told him that I will now tell you what I want you to do with this.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But it doesn't always work, Nikhil. Fan, I loved that film, but it didn't do as well as it should have. And I think Shah Rukh did a fabulous job in that film.

First half, superb. So it doesn't, may not always work, but they're willing to try.

Nikkhil Advani: Always they're willing to try. If they feel that there is merit to it. If they feel that there is something to it, you know.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: That's interesting. I find a lack of confidence when I speak to a lot of filmmakers or studio heads. And what you mentioned about why you stepped back from theatrical and the thing of not.

And ultimately, this can't be science. This is ultimately my vision and my idea of a story connecting with a million people and 10 million people or 20 million people. So that it's like a book connecting with whatever X number of people.

Do you find that coming back in the business? I'm not sure, you know, has the success of Sayara or Dhurinder or, you know, even the modicum of success that, let's say, a Laapata or a Twelfth Veil had in the theatres. Do you think that that is coming back?

Nikkhil Advani: I can only hope that it is coming back. I can only hope that it's coming back. I know, see, you have to understand also that all, it's not my, it's not my only reticence which you're talking about for the last, that we moved away.

Every single quality filmmaker moved away and just said, boss, humko samajh mein nahi aaya raha hai, kya ho raha hai. Let's just step back because, you know, I mean, it's great that, it's great that you're playing for the box office on the Friday, Saturday, Sunday, but really at the end of the day, what works is that Monday, right? Is the film working on that Monday, which is important?

So you've got to be making films for that Monday and not for the Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Friday, Saturday, Sunday is marketing. Friday, Saturday, Sunday is marketing.

Monday is word of mouth. By then it is that, boss, yeh picture is very good. Ladka ladkiya superb, you know, the story is working and Mohit has done what he has done with it and all that kind of stuff just, just, just shifts, right?

Even with Durandar, it starts with every high, this thing is there and then it, it, it, the connect starts happening, whatever, whatever, and then it's, it's this or it's not this and I can't believe they've done this or whatever it is, right? So, I feel ki, I hope and I, I know that a lot of the filmmakers, we have a group of, of WhatsApp group with directors, where, but the Oh Lord, tell me who's on it? Everybody.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah?

Nikkhil Advani: Like who? Take the name, they're there on it, because it's, it's actually a connection, it's, it's, it's connected to Shivendra Dungarpur's Film Heritage Foundation.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Okay.

Nikkhil Advani: So, when FHF wanted to start a WhatsApp group, then I, I, I added people, then other people added people. So, suddenly that group has got, it's everybody.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: And what do you guys talk about?

Nikkhil Advani: Jaws and, and what Shivi is doing and, and, and, and the incredible stuff that he's doing. But at the same time, there'll be something that, hey, did you, you know, this is, have you guys seen this? This is work, this is this thing, something, something, you know, what this Malayalam film, this, this thing.

So, there's a lot, but I mean, and now I know, I saw that a lot of those people are not working. They're all now getting back.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: This is probably not strictly a question that, but, you know, on the creative front, yes, we know that, you know, there's been a transition. And every few years hota hai, audience change hoti hai. You know, like there's in journalism, there's an adage, there are no, no new stories, there are only new journalists.

So, we, we tell the same stories again and again. But the fact is also that India has, doesn't have the infrastructure to have a healthy theatrical business. We have eight, eight and a half, whatever, 8,700 screens.

Nikkhil Advani: What, 9,000 or 8,000?

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Jo bhi, 9,000 le lo aap. Usme aap kya kar loge? Kuch nahi.

So, why is this something that your community, which is the film community, is not, and I'm not talking, BVR ke upar poori responsibility nahi hai to set up screens. Because I know Mr. Bijli is always arguing with me about, but the fact is, I don't know if you heard of this SVF na, the guys in Calcutta. They, they saw their Bengali films ka takings, droppings, they started acquiring and managing single screens.

Now they have 63 screens. They do it only for Bengali cinema, Hindi, Vindhi, distributed.

Nikkhil Advani: I know them. Yeah, I know them well.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: So, my point is, why don't we see more stuff on the creative infrastructure? Yes, we are building, but on the screen infrastructure, and this is 60-70% of your revenues. Why don't we see a more, greater push coming from the studios?

And it doesn't have to be a five-star experience. So, you know, in geographies and pin codes where screens nahi hai. Is that, is that something you guys have ever discussed, talked about?

I know it's strictly not.

Nikkhil Advani: There is still a certain level of, how do I put it, there is still a certain level of, and, and, and, not unfounded, not unfounded suspicion to the industry, right, in the sense ki corporate, the corporate world does not still look at us as if that, you know, these guys are, Kosher. Compliance, compliance ke issues abhi bhi hai, transparency ke issues abhi bhi, nahi hai, nahi hai. I think business is pretty clean, largely.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Absolutely, right, right.

Nikkhil Advani: But the point, but I can't go into a bank and give my script and say I want a loan, unless I have to put my house ghirvi.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Woh Hollywood mein bhi mushkil hai, you have these special purpose vehicles, you have high net worth guys coming in to invest, capital is a issue.

Nikkhil Advani: So, everything is still, everything really theatrically is still determined by the fact ki kaunse actor, which actor do you have in your, this thing, right. It's still, it's still, top down, right, it's still ki matlab I have got that actor, I have got his actor's dates, I have got, you see, now, and then the, whether the, your digital price comes in, or whether your, you know, all those kind of things. So, the, the, the, you, we need people to invest, right, into multiplexes and into screens and, like you said, it cannot just be ki matlab PVR has taken on this whole burden of running.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Absolutely, it has to be other guys.

Nikkhil Advani: So, we need people to, this thing, that. So, right now, I mean, like you said, this is 8,500 screens, right, what would be the entire, this thing of, say, the Hindi film industry in general, and I am only talking about the Hindi film industry, I don't know anything about the South, but what would you think would be the, like the annual revenue of the Hindi film industry?

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Hindi film industry should be what, 6,000 crores, 5,000, 6,000 crores, don't hold, don't hold me to it. I am talking box office, I am talking only box office, overall, 21,000 ki poori industry hai, usme se agar box office is mota-mota 13,000 crores. 21,000?

Haan, 21,000 is a full, all revenues included, streaming, overseas, sab daal diya, I am talking 2025, 13,000 odd was box office. Okay. Usme Hindi, I would, I would reckon Hindi would be at least 5, 6, if not more, because ticket prices are higher in the Hindi markets, South ticket prices are much lower.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But don't hold me to it, I need to check on it.

Nikkhil Advani: What is, what is the annual revenue of a mid-cap company on the stock exchange?

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: 500, 100, 1,000.

Nikkhil Advani: 500, 1,000 crores. Where are we? The industry.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: I, I, that is exactly my point, Nats, that we don't have the, so when we talk about Indian cinema going overseas, and this is, you know, this is a book I am doing, we are a blip on the global horizon. Zero.

Nikkhil Advani: And, But you are talking about overseas, in India, everybody is still watching everything on where, Doordarshan, on, everything is still on satellite. Everything is still, matlab, eventually, everybody is watching, see cricket is, sports and cricket has cracked it, right, which is that you have to, and, and, and, I was shocked when, when, when I learned that people don't do annual subscription of streaming in this country.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: No, no, they do monthly.

Nikkhil Advani: They do monthly.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: They come in for a, only people like me do, or you must be doing annual subscription.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, yeah, so we are not the, we are not the, we are not the subscriber, we are not the subscriber that the platform is going after, because we are the guys who are not even, we are, we are, we are on auto-pay. Haan, correct. We are on auto-pay, in fact, when we put on, by, by, by chance after three months we go to another platform that we, just because we have heard, oh, he has come there, and we see, we get angry, you know, we will call up our office or whatever, I call up the office and say, auto-pay pe kyu nahi hai yeh, you know, so we are on auto-pay, so we are not bothered.

The guy who basically is waiting and saying ki Maharani aagaya, Scam 3 aagaya, aur abhi Rocket Boys bhi aagaya.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Ek maine ke liye leka.

Nikkhil Advani: Ek maine ke liye leka. Right, abhi ta, aaya nahi hai, Rocket Boys, agle, agle maine aagaya hai, to, and that's how the programming is happening. You understand, the programming also happens in the same way.

Happens that way. Yes, Asia Cup aagaya, to Asia Cup ke liye sab log jayenge, uss time pe, so what you will do is, you will put your most expensive show, where you need the most subscription and revenue to come back, to be around a cricket match.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Correct, correct, correct.

Nikkhil Advani: Make sense?

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah, yeah.

Nikkhil Advani: Right, in programming?

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But it's not a sustainable, it doesn't lead to.

Nikkhil Advani: Obviously not, I mean, whether, whether you want to try and, try and use the YouTube model of, of this thing or whether you want to try and do, there is, it's nothing. We are not, we are, we are not, we are more interested in putting up another award show, right, which nobody is going for. And, and literally, literally, top, I mean, journalists of this country are calling us, please aajao, please aajao, that's what is happening, right?

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: They had Chetak just now na, Chetak screen over. Acha, we are like a billion, billion and a half, odd, I think, 1.5 to 2 billion in top line, film industry in India. Pandhra pees billion hogi na jab business, then we have the financial muscle also to do a proper release overseas, do everything.

So, I always say, everything is a sikudawa market.

Nikkhil Advani: South Korea ka kitne?

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: South Korea ka abhi nahi pata, I really don't know the, this thing right now. But tell me, last two questions, what would be your advice to filmmakers? Now, the Nikhil Advani, who's worked for over 30 years, what would be your advice to filmmakers today?

If you were asked to give advice, I know today people don't like taking advice.

Nikkhil Advani: Read, read, read, listen to music, watch films, travel, live life experience, nothing else.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: And what is?

Nikkhil Advani: Understand prompt, prompt, prompt, prompt, prompt.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Understand prompt matlab?

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah. The person who can prompt uniquely and originally will always make something more effective then. So, it is only prompting.

I'm waiting for that kid in Chhattisgarh or Jharkhand who has an incredible idea, who knows how to prompt, who has no resources whatsoever, who has no connect with any of the top actors or stars or whatever. To come up with a film, will just blow everybody out of the water.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: What does Nikhil Advani want to be remembered for? I know you've put on your Twitter handle, about your cameo in Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, which is like my favourite cameo, frankly, it defines you for me. But what does Nikhil Advani want to be remembered for?

Nikkhil Advani: Quality. I just think that whatever we do, right now we are going back to the first question, MA 15 at 15. My whole thing is that if we don't, if we don't, the next 10-15 years of MA, if it is not going to be defined by every single thing that we do is of huge quality, then I failed.

Just quality.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But if Emmay is 15 years old, your body of work is defined by that largely?

Nikkhil Advani: Already. Most of it. In the last 15 years, we've done 40 projects, 40 projects.

So, yeah, it just needs to be, I think that, quality.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: On that note of high quality, thank you so much, Nikhil, for talking to me and taking the time out for this one. Thank you.

Nikkhil Advani: But it's 15 or 15, let's see.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Are you looking for capital?

Nikkhil Advani: You know, that's a very good question that you need to ask Munisha and Madhu. Because I just keep saying, mujhe kyun nahi paise chahiye, mujhe paise chahiye, so I can do more better work and do the kind of work that I want to do and sustain the lifestyle that I have. But I don't know anything.

I don't know this, what is it, EBITDA and all that kind of stuff.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: EBITDA is just the money you make.

Nikkhil Advani: Mujhe toh kuch pata bhi nahi hai yaar, toh.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: You read. So, you're, you're, you're, you're erudite as far as I can make out. So, that is not.

Nikkhil Advani: But I choose.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But you might, if you're talking about doing 15 projects and maybe 30 next year, that kind of scale will require capital, uski bina. I mean, I've seen some of the deals which have happened, they're interesting. Your Baveja went IPO.

He says, meko private equity nahi chahiye. Karan got.

Nikkhil Advani: There was a conversation that happened inside my office and they said that when Freedom you know, one of, one of the writers and, and, and second unit directors of Freedom at Midnight and said that, you know, I believe that it's done like this, like this, like this, like this, Sony may, you know, I know somebody who they were working with in Sony during the deliveries and has given us these kind of things and all. And they looked at me and said that, you know, so have you got all the things from them?

I said, see, Danish and Shagod have invited me for a drink tomorrow. They're happy.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: I didn't understand.

Nikkhil Advani: I don't, I want to just, if the, if the studio head and the platform head calls me and says, listen, let's go for a drink and let's discuss what we can do more.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: They're invested in you, in that sense. They want your.

Nikkhil Advani: And that they're, they're happy with what has happened, right? They will not, they will, mera phone nahi uthaenge na, agar matlab mene unko duba diya hai.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Marabaad.

Nikkhil Advani: To mere liye wo hai. So, I don't want to be.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Beholden to someone on, on the.

Nikkhil Advani: No, beholden to these numbers.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: No, but right now you're totally self-funded.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, totally.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Totally, from your own. And you've not felt the need for capital or you choose not to.

Nikkhil Advani: We are, I can tell you that. We are zero debt and cash positive.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: See, you know the terms, Nikhil. You're not as ignorant as you pretend to be.

Nikkhil Advani: Yeah, completely. And that is full credit to Madhu who just drives the production in some, some.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: I've heard about her and Manisha quite a lot.

Nikkhil Advani: Insane this thing, yeah. So, she has driven that we are, you understand this, that we are zero debt and cash positive.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Do you have an ambition to grow large or not? That was the point I'm trying. If that ambition is there, then capital does come into play, na, Nikhil?

Isliye main pooch rahi thi aapko. Ki, I mean, you look at all these guys, Siddharth, Vikram Malhotra, you know this, Madhok Kutum aa gaya tha, 22 mein I think they got some capital. Everybody's excel.

Everybody's. Whether your balance sheet is strong or weak, right now, everybody's looking for capital.

Nikkhil Advani: I want to, I like to read about 824 and Neon.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Theek hai. Great. Thank you, Nikhil, so much for being on The Media Room.