Sony India is betting on television, SonyLIV, KBC, streaming and sports to drive its next phase of growth. Gaurav Banerjee, Managing Director and CEO of Sony Pictures Networks India, explains why he believes Indian TV is far from dead and how Sony plans to compete for audiences across screens.

In this episode of The Media Room, Vanita Kohli-Khandekar speaks with Gaurav Banerjee about Sony India’s television and streaming strategy, the growth of SonyLIV, the future of Indian television and the changing economics of the media and entertainment business.

Banerjee explains how Sony is reinventing some of its biggest entertainment properties. KBC is being reworked for the age of AI, Indian Idol has been adapted for a new generation of musicians, and established franchises such as Crime Patrol are being refreshed for changing audiences.

The conversation also looks at what really works on streaming in India. Banerjee argues that mass entertainment, live sports and strong intellectual property can travel across television, SonyLIV, YouTube and connected TVs rather than existing as separate viewing worlds.

SonyLIV sits at the centre of that strategy. From live cricket and interactive viewing to originals such as Scam, Maharani and Gullak, Sony is looking to expand SonyLIV while retaining its premium positioning and building stronger engagement across digital screens.

Sports is another important part of Sony’s growth strategy. Banerjee discusses the economics of sports broadcasting, cricket rights, the Asia Cup and why sports must generate reach, revenue and profit rather than simply attract large audiences.

The episode also tackles a larger question facing India’s media industry.

Is television really dying?

Banerjee argues that the problem is not television itself but whether broadcasters are creating programmes audiences still want to watch. Sony is consequently increasing investment in Hindi television, regional entertainment and new channels across Tamil, Marathi, Bangla and other Indian markets.

He also discusses Sony’s focus on watch time, viewership growth, advertising, connected TV adoption and why strong content remains the company’s most important growth driver.

Also discussed in this episode

* Sony India’s television and streaming strategy

* SonyLIV growth and the future of OTT in India

* The future of Indian television

* KBC in the age of AI

* Amitabh Bachchan and Kaun Banega Crorepati

* Indian Idol and the changing music industry

* Madhuri Dixit and Marathi KBC

* Ajay Devgn and the reinvention of Crime Patrol

* A R Rahman and Tamil Idol

* Samantha Ruth Prabhu and Celebrity MasterChef

* Sony’s sports broadcasting strategy

* Cricket rights and sports streaming economics

* Connected TV growth in India

* Advertising, viewership and watch time

* Scam, Maharani, Gullak and SonyLIV originals

* Sony’s regional television expansion

* The future of India’s media and entertainment industry

Watch the full conversation with Gaurav Banerjee on The Media Room with Vanita Kohli-Khandekar from The Core.

NOTE: This transcript is done by a machine. Human eyes have gone through the script but there might still be errors in some of the text, so please refer to the audio in case you need to clarify any part. If you want to get in touch regarding any feedback, you can drop us a message on feedback@thecore.in.

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TRANSCRIPT

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Hello and welcome to the media room. Today I have with me Gaurav Banerjee, who is the managing director and CEO for Sony in India. It's Sony Pictures Network in India.

The name has changed like five times, so I've had to remember Multiscreen Media, Culvermax and other names. But the point is, Sony has just had a fantastic year financially and Gaurav took over two years ago. So I just wanted to speak to Gaurav on where Sony is, how it is doing and what shape is the television business in.

Over to Gaurav. Gaurav, first, kaha hai Sony? You had a nice time.

Where is the company placed in the ecosystem right now?

Gaurav Banerjee: I think we are in a good space, Vanita. The way we think of ourselves, our mission, is that we believe this country, at some point in the next decade, will be a 10 trillion economy. And the entertainment that we create should light up a billion screens and we want to be the company at the heart of that entertainment revolution.

A company which has the best shows, the most amazing IP and is able to be a very large part of Indian's lives and their entertainment as we grow seamlessly over the next decade. And everything that we have tried to do here is in the service of that big bold ambition.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: And what it is that you've tried to do here? I mean, in the two years that you've been in, what is the Sony you had and what is the Sony you are creating right now? I'd say this transformation is still on because you've had a lot of reorganisation, a lot of things happening.

Gaurav Banerjee: So I think it's not so much about me. I think Sony has had a great brand and an amazing purpose in this market for the last 30 years. And what has been core to that purpose is that we must stand for quality and we must stand for innovation and content.

And I think those are the things that we have been sort of really focused on building. So one of the most important things for us is we need to be the place for incredible IP. And within that, in the world of creativity, we want to stand for innovation that viewers want to see.

And therefore, it needs to be at scale. And it needs to have a sustainable business model that allows us to keep investing more and more in creating better stories.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Give me an example.

Gaurav Banerjee: So for example, we are just now a few days away from launching the new season of Kaun Binega Crorepati. So yeah, about 26 years, an 18th season of KBC. And this time, what the team is doing is we're building KBC for the age of AI.

And therefore, what we have done is taken the show away from only being about questions and answers. Because now, all the questions that you have, the answers are in anybody's pockets, right? So what's the point in, you know, knowing the right answers, or more importantly, remembering the right answers?

Not needed. So this season, the show is about applying your brain, about strategy. And therefore, it changes something completely about the game, and therefore, the show.

And therefore, hopefully, makes it a lot more relevant for viewers.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Have you seen our campaign? No, I haven't.

Gaurav Banerjee: I must admit I haven't seen it. That's fine. So, you know, in one of the ads, Mr. Bachchan is saying that, you know, this year, it's not simply just rote learning. It's about thinking, and figuring out what is the right answer, right? So this season, in some way, is not about remembering the right answer, but figuring it out. That's all that I'm willing to say right now.

For the rest, watch out for 10th of August.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But you know, a lot of the shows that, you know, whether it's a Shark Tank, a MasterChef, a KBC, a lot of your recent successes have been nonfiction.

Gaurav Banerjee: Yes.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Is that indicative of something? Is there a larger sort of thing at play here, which you want to?

Gaurav Banerjee: So actually, we have had a lot of success with nonfiction. Absolutely. We've also had a lot of success with fiction.

So one of the shows that has done very well for us is something we launched recently on Sony Sub, Hastinapur Ke Veer. And you know, that's, again, a new take on mythology. So the take is, you know, how do we think about the Mahabharata, but from a children's point of view, and about the children in the Mahabharata.

So this is a story of young kids, Pandavas.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Young Pandavas.

Gaurav Banerjee: And how they interact, and how it becomes a question of values, as they are studying and growing up. And, you know, being parented in very different schools, the school of Dhritarashtra, and then the school of Kunti. So I think that show has got a tremendous start in the last couple of months, and we're very proud of it.

I agree with you, I think shows like KBC, Indian Idol, have also done very well. And so has MasterChef. So I think it's a mix of very good fiction storytelling, which is, again, innovation at the centre.

And a lot of the nonfiction IP, which is getting reinvented. So we spoke a little bit about KBC earlier, but I'm equally proud of what has happened with Indian Idol. So in the last couple of years, Indian Idol, on streaming and on TV, has broadly had a growth of about 30% of viewership.

And I think that happened because, again, we chose to reimagine the concept of Indian Idol. And who is an Indian Idol today? You know, and the earlier idea in India has largely been about playback singing.

But young pop musicians who are coming through today, that's not their only aspiration. Actually, it's a very small part, if at all. The bigger aspiration is your own personal identity, and your own music, right?

And can you fill up stadiums by your own name? So we reinvented Indian Idol two years ago. We also brought this change forward by bringing Badshah as one of the judges.

He's a different age musician, right? He's not your classical playback singer. He's different to that.

So I think all of that viewers connected with, right? And therefore, we saw the jump in viewership that we did see. So I think whether it is our classics, like KBC and Idol, or it is the new stuff that we're sort of trying.

We did something with Wheel of Fortune with Akshay. So there's been a lot of effort to bring in new things on non-fiction slate. But it isn't that we are only a non-fiction IP company.

We are an IP company. And therefore, things like Hastinapur KV or Tarak will always be very important to us.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But is fiction becoming, I mean, is non-fiction becoming a larger proportion of what gets in viewership and top line? Or has that, you know, it was typically 80-20, 70-30 for most broadcasters. Has that, I'm just curious, this is actually not?

Gaurav Banerjee: So I think both are very important, right? So I wouldn't really say that one is a lot more important than the other, right? Sony Sub for the last several months has now been the number one entertainment channel on television in Hindi.

So that's a crown that we're very proud of. Across? In HSM, yeah.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Total. I mean, even if I take the Dangals and everything else into account.

Gaurav Banerjee: In the world, I don't look at the free class FTA, whatever world, but the pay TV world that we measure, right? On that, Sony Sub has had a very good run as a very, very successful channel. And I think that is powered entirely by fiction, right?

So I wouldn't say that India's audiences are moving away from fiction. However, I think the message there, the signal there is that it's different kind of fiction that seems to be working, right? So it's a show like Tara, it's a show like Haseena Purgavi, that's doing very well.

And that's quite different from what used to do well, let's say three years ago or five years ago, right? So I think there's a good shift. We are leading on that shift.

And I think we're very proud of what we have in development there. So hope to grow that further. I think we have a unique spot there on Sony Sub, where we build shows for the family, and in some ways, for the child at the centre of that family, right?

And that comes through in Tara, it comes through in Haseena Purgavi. And you will see more and more of that in the new content that we are also creating. So we're just about to start promoting, Hanuman was last year, but we're just beginning to promote a new show, which is called Papa Kehte Hain, which is five kids sort of, you know, growing up with each other, and they don't have parents.

And there's a lot of craziness in the air. And how do they sort of, you know, parent each other, while just being kids. So there is, you know, that.

And then there is a lot more sort of comedy and folk that's in our pipeline. And we'll talk and announce more of that in the next couple of months. But it's an exciting state.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: This is not part of my question. But from what you're saying, you know, I always, we always think of programming in terms of what streamers are doing. But we never think of the programming, not challenges, but the programming strategy or the, how the dashboard for a linear broadcaster could be looking in this day and age, you know, from long to short, I mean, across the spectrum of time from 10 seconds to 10 hours, you have content on tap, you know, that we are living in the age of the deluge, and gluttony, both.

So from the consumer side and the supply side, but what what sort of pulls and pressures does that create for a broadcaster? I'd be very curious.

Gaurav Banerjee: Firstly, we had a streamer too.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah, I know. I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that.

I'm coming to Sony live. So it's there, very much there. But from because you're, I would reckon that broadcasting is what 70-80% of your top line even today.

Gaurav Banerjee: It's less than that.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Less than that.

Gaurav Banerjee: And streaming is growing dramatically.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Okay.

Gaurav Banerjee: No, I think, you know, one of the misconceptions that we have is around the nature of content that is actually streamed, you know, in India, what truly works in streaming, right? In the world of television, that's a lot clearer, because we have always had ratings till recently. And therefore, we've always had a view saying, okay, what does India watch?

And that's basis, whatever, 60,000 people metres. On streaming, it's very hard, because all the data is with the different platforms. And, you know, it's kind of difficult to piece together a combined view of India.

However, I think one of the interesting credible reports in recent times is the Ormax streaming view. And that's pretty interesting, because right at the top, I think four of the top six streaming shows that they have mentioned in their recent reports are actually shows that are common to streaming in television, right, including our own Tarak Mehta. So I think what gets streamed at scale in India, right, will be very surprising to those who think of, you know, streaming as a sort of dated view of the kind of programming that streaming had started 10 years ago.

I think everybody has moved on from that platform.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: I think all streamers are linearising as far as I can make out. They are all going mass. So you know, I had this question to Gaurav and to Monica and to all your contemporaries in the business, that, you know, you guys are doing exactly, and that's the, that's the, they have to scale up too.

So that's the game they'll have to play.

Gaurav Banerjee: So yeah, it's been, it's been like that a long time in the coming, right, because nothing else explains why in the last set of rights, IPL streaming value was over $3 billion, right. So I think that's the market telling you what is the most valuable streaming asset out there. $3 billion in India over five years is a tonne of money, right.

And then we saw exactly similar trends play out on ICC as well. And we are naturally seeing that with big blockbuster movies. And I think the streaming view in shows is also making it clear, right.

So it is a Tarak Mehta. It is a Laughter Chef that do very, very well, right. So I think there is a very small audience, which is a niche audience, which likes, you know, what traditionally gets called sort of premium drama.

But that's a very small niche, and that's fine. And it should also be there. However, the great advantage that needs to happen now in streaming is that the number of connected TV homes in India today is roughly 60 million.

That's the number that most people seem to agree on. So that means that there is a streaming audience of about 250 million people, right. And therefore, the content that you need to create is something that will light up these many homes, right.

And that answer, I think, is going to be, you know, the new version. ABC, I hope. It's certainly a lot of the nonfiction shows that you mentioned.

And big fiction stories of massive scale and ambition, like Hastinapur Ke Veer. So I think that will power entertainment on connected screens. And Sony wants to be at the heart and centre of that.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: So the thinking on programming is agnostic of screen in that sense. It is the same. But the revenues don't move in the same proportion.

And this is something you see across whether it is publishing, music, television, cinema. Audiences move, but the revenues don't move at the same pace or with the same kind of yields and profits. What is Sony's, especially with Live, what is your, it's a pay service, very, I mean, in the beginning.

Now I'm assuming there'll be some changes. It was sort of pegged very clearly as a cerebral sort of thing, which, and it did some fabulous shows, Scam, Andekhi, I think, Maharani. I mean, some of the shows that I've watched, Freedom at Midnight, Rocket Boys.

But where do the twain meet as far as programming strategy goes and as far as your overall business growth drivers grow? So where, you know, when I talked about shows which are doing well, okay, let me put it this way. I'm going all over the place.

What is your dashboard looking like as the CEO of this company? What are your growth drivers and what are your priorities?

Gaurav Banerjee: Hit shows. My only priority is we need to be able to create great content that cuts across screens and does really, really well on building engagement on streaming, on YouTube and on TV. Right.

So I think we have seen that if we get something really right, it lights up across screens. Right. So I think, so we have never seen that, you know, it's okay.

This is working very, very well on our TV network, but it doesn't work on digital. Right. Or the reverse.

We have no data. Right. That supports that these are sort of different taste clusters.

Right. So I think that's the first thing which is important to us. Second, I think what really needs to get done is we need a lot more innovation on storytelling that we can do much better on.

So for example, I think we spoke about everything that we're trying to do in non-fiction. Equally on sports. Right.

I think sports is such an important part of our strategy. I think we are, we're the number two player on sports streaming and television in this country. We're profitably playing that game.

And I think we want to be the most innovative with that as well. So for example, one of the things that I'm pushing our team here to do is, you know, can we figure out smart highlights, smart statistics, which make the experience of the sports fan on digital screens, you know, interactive. Right.

So I think those are the kind of things that we would love to lead the charge and innovation. So I think to answer your question, what's important on my dashboard? Growing watch time.

Number one. And knowing that if we can keep growing the watch time, the revenue will follow. And I think everything that we have seen in the last couple of years here bears this out.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: What's led the revenue growth in the last couple of years?

Gaurav Banerjee: We don't comment so much on our financials.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: No, no. But what has driven the growth?

Gaurav Banerjee: Viewership growth.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Viewership and therefore advertising growth?

Gaurav Banerjee: That's right. That's right. So viewership, I think first viewership growth.

Right. So I think if you think of the last two years, what's what? The fact that SET viewership is up by about 38 percent.

Sony sub viewership is also up and the channels are number one. And we had the Asia Cup, right, where the games did very, very well on digital and also on TV. So I think those would be three of the big shifts that we have seen.

I mentioned some of the specific shows. So I think all of that has led to, you know, greater viewership, greater engagement, and therefore advertising has followed that trend. And I think our advertising power for this network also comes because we have a lot of IP that brands really trust.

And we have the best set of influencers in this country, right? We have the incomparable Amitabh Bachchan. We have just announced a show with Rohit Sharma.

We had a really good series with Akshay Kumar. So I think from an advertiser perspective, this is very, very valuable. So that certainly helps.

And I thought since we're doing an interview, we're doing an interview of a long time, I should give you a couple of news headlines. So I'm happy to tell you for the first time, we're publicly sharing this, that we have signed up with Madhuri Dixit to do a Marathi version of Kaun Minera Crorepati.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Oh, fabulous. On Sony Marathi.

Gaurav Banerjee: Yes, Sony Marathi and on SonyLIV. So the first time a woman host.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: First time a woman host? KVC hasn't been, who wants to be a millionaire?

Gaurav Banerjee: Who wants to be a millionaire? So I think in the north, this is probably the first, we are certainly doing it for the first time. And Madhuri should be amazing.

So yeah, I think, you know, we're powering up some of the big names that we have to reinvent IP that we are very, very proud of. And she is a great artist that we'd love to welcome to the house of Sony. We are trying to do something very similar with Ajay Devgn, because one of the other reinventions that we are doing is Crime Patrol.

It's a great show, has had a fantastic run for several years. But we believe that the world of crime and the way it is portrayed, also needs a reinvention, right? And in some ways, today is also the age and therefore in this world, what happens often, you know, we think that the criminal is outside and the criminal is somebody that you don't know.

Often the criminal is inside, and it is more likely that it's someone that you do know. So I think there is a lot of work that is happening now. And we will start re-reading this.

So this is the same people who, where the show started. So Subbu and the Optimistic team. So they are the OGs when it comes to making Crime Patrol a great show when it first launched.

And they're back. And we have Ajay Devgn to be the presenter for it. So again, that's something which we are pretty excited about, a reinvention of one of the iconic Sony IPs.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Gaurav, everything you're telling me, you know, and for years I remember asking various people in Sony, you know, such an urban Hindi channel, its image was often very popular, but within urban India, and you know, that it was always one thing which Sony tried very hard, SET especially tried very hard to bring, and that's why Sub happened, and The Bangla and a whole lot of other things. But from whatever you're telling me, the show is doing well, and it seems like popular mass television at scale seems to be the picture that I'm getting from. Is that correct?

And is it then, therefore, and then where does Sony live, sit, and what changes can we expect? I don't see Maharani coming on to Sony. I don't see Andeki coming on to Sony.

Where does, you know, when we talk about being screen agnostic, that it doesn't, it's not working both ways. And this is not just you, I think most streamers, even in Geostar, I don't know if that happens, but from a Sony perspective.

Gaurav Banerjee: Right, so I don't think we're going away at all from our premium positioning, Vanita. So in fact, like all of these shows that I've been talking about have been part of the Sony fabric for the last 10-15 years, right? So I think whether it is KBC, or Indian Idol, or Crime Patrol, or Tarak, right, these are not new shows.

These are very much part of our fabric. We are very proud of them. And they have created the Sony premium feeling.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Okay.

Gaurav Banerjee: So I think, you know, India is a country of 1.4 billion people, right? So if there are shows that appeal to 300 million people, that is a premium show.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: So popular doesn't mean cheap.

Gaurav Banerjee: Yes.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But I mean, it's more advertising.

Gaurav Banerjee: These are the most premium shows, right, in our country. And advertisers love them, right? Because of the premium positioning and more affluent audiences that we get.

And I think none of our effort is to dilute any of that. Actually, it is to strengthen that. So, you know, when you think of KBC, what spin we have given it this year has tremendous premium appeal.

We already know that because we have the reception to the campaign that's already happened. And it's a great draw for advertisers. So I think we want to double down on our premium positioning, right?

Not move away from it. Absolutely. So deep commitment to that.

Okay.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: And so where does SonyLIV sit now? Now I want to specifically on that brand. And how were you sort of transforming it if needed to fit the broad picture that you have in mind?

Gaurav Banerjee: So I think SonyLIV sits right at the heart of it, right? Because we have seen really good growth on SonyLIV in the last two years, which we're really proud of. And I do believe it will grow significantly in reach in the next five years.

And what it needs to do is to make entertainment a lot more interactive. And that's possible in the world of digital in a much bigger way than it was possible in the world of broadcasting. So I think that's the first big shift.

And you know, when you think of SonyLIV, right, our biggest fan moments forever, so this is not only about the last two years, have happened because of amazing live spots, right? So the number one thing to think of in our data and over our experience of the last half decade is the huge engagement and fan absorption that gets created with live spots. So the biggest moment for us in the two years that I've been here was last year in September when the Asia Cup happened.

And our concurrency was 5x of anything that we had hit before that. I think, you know, so one of the big things therefore on SonyLIV, right, was we needed to be ready to be a platform that can support that kind of reach on a live game, right? Because we had never before this had the scale of India-Pakistan cricket for us.

So that was the big deal. And I think I'm really, really proud of the team. They pulled off a miracle.

And it was just terrific. So I think great fan experience for incredible live spots is one part of our identity. Second, can we make all of these nonfiction shows that we've been talking about, right, can we give them spins that are unique to the live experience?

So for example, Play Along has been a unique feature of KBC, right? So how should Play Along be reimagined in a world where you're watching it on a connected device, right? And you can therefore interact a lot more frequently and a lot more seamlessly.

So I think that's a second dimension.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Are we going to see it this season?

Gaurav Banerjee: Yes. We're sort of experimenting some stuff. We will hope to see the season.

But we'll keep sort of building on this as we go along. And the tech allows us to do that, right? And the capabilities that we have built in the last couple of years, we will be able to do a lot more with that going forward.

So that, to my mind, is a second level. A third, actually, Sony Liv is the place where a lot of the signature IP of the Sony group sits. So whether it is KBC or Shark Tank or Crime Patrol or Tarak, you know, that's the place for you to watch it.

And millions of fans do that every month, right? So which is incredible, very, very powerful. The fourth thing is, you know, it brings alive the world of the global Sony group, right?

And we have taken steps in the last few weeks to sort of make that even more apparent. One is the partnership with Crunchyroll, which allows, you know, our fans to seamlessly move and connect with Crunchyroll, which is the greatest platform for anime anywhere in the world. And because that's part of our group, we are very proud of that partnership.

And also Spider-Man. And I think, you know, also to have Spider-Man content and really push, because it's a Sony Pictures release, this weekend we are hoping to have a great start in the box office all over the world, also here in India. And therefore, you know, how does sort of LIV also become a home for Spidey has been something that we have worked on.

And, you know, it's all over the app right now. So I think all of this is kind of interesting, exciting. It's the new SonyLIV.

It's available to all fans. And of course, it has built an identity and originals, which is unique. It's different.

It's cool. And we want all of that to also be there.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Will that continue? Or do you see it?

Gaurav Banerjee: So we have a new season of Scam, which is being shot right now. And it's a pretty, pretty exciting story. And Hansal is hard at work.

But we are very excited about it. The script is exciting. And Hansal is super excited.

So I think that's something which we're looking forward to. We're also working again with Subhash to do the next version of Maharani. We have in Gulak a fantastic series, where also we have the next season.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Gulak I thought was very good for Sony, the main channel. I wondered why it never went the other way. It is such a great show for SCP.

Gaurav Banerjee: It's a good show. It's a really good show. Yeah, I think we'll think about that.

Right. I think all those are sort of the right conversations to have inside the company. And we'll think about it.

So basically, to come back to your question on SonyLIV. So therefore, there is an identity on originals. And that identity is around great IP that we mentioned, and new IP that we want to create.

We've just announced our first animation series, Legend of Karna.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Indian?

Gaurav Banerjee: Yes. So we're doing this with the folks who did Legend of Hanuman. So this is something, again, that we're very excited about.

It should drop on the 31st. But, you know, Ours is a crunchy roll home.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: I have a teenage boy who watches crunchy rolls. So it's total animatric.

Gaurav Banerjee: Awesome. So he should definitely then try it. But yeah, I think, you know, the world of Indian anime, which is a little bit more complex, which is also targeting adults.

That's a world that we like.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: You mentioned sports, and I have more detailed questions. But quickly, on sports, one of the things I find very interesting is all the surrounding programming around sports also, you know, so whether it's a YouTube doing it or somebody else doing it, you may not own the core rights, but you could be doing a lot of surround programming. And the people who own the rights, of course, like I think Star Sports and Jio did a lot of stuff across languages with sports.

How much of that really drives and what is your view on sports? If I look at entertainment and sports, and these are the two things, and in entertainment, I think you have a good fix on the nonfiction side, especially fiction and nonfiction, but on sports, and from a streaming perspective, one is on the whole rise of rights, etc. So how much can Sony enter?

I mean, you guys were the first with the IPL long back when the first IPL happened. So you know, kudos to the team then and Kunal. But Sony has not got back in the IPL game for a long time, which is like the biggest property there is.

It's 99% of all sports revenues in this country. How do you break that thing? How do you get other sports to advance?

How do you make sports programming a bigger thing, whether it is by the enveloping programming, whether it's with rights, whether it's something else? I mean, is that something that as a head of a company, which content company that you think of?

Gaurav Banerjee: So we love sports. It's the best way to connect with large audiences and young audiences, right? So it's a critical part of our strategy.

However, we will always be disciplined around our investments, and we're here to build our own IP first, right? So we are an IP-led content and entertainment company, right? So I think we want to keep that at the centre.

And we acknowledge and recognise that, you know, what sports can do to unleash reach, particularly among young users, nothing else can. So we want to be in the sports business. It's a great differentiator for us, right?

As a streaming platform, we're one of only two that has that kind of scale on sports, and that level of engagement on sports. And therefore, it also widens our funnel and allows our entertainment to also keep growing year on year. So it has a dual purpose, right?

I think we have, I'm very proud of the portfolio of sports rights that we have today. And I think we've done a lot of very disciplined work on this portfolio in the last two years as well. So I think the first such move was when we acquired the rights to ACC.

And we spoke a little bit about last September, what that did for us. And in addition to that, the fact that we have Asian games, commonwealth games, rights from ECB, New Zealand cricket, Sri Lanka cricket. So when you put all of this together, it's a very large, big scale and profitable sports portfolio that we believe is at the centre of how we're thinking about our television network, and also our streaming play.

So I think it straddles both. And that's something we're proud of. And I think discipline is part of our core strategy, right?

So we will always be...

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Has to be profitable, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Gaurav Banerjee: It has to be profitable, absolutely, right? Because we need to keep investing in content creation and IP building, right? That is the core.

And that's, frankly, the arc that we're building into this future.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But you mentioned something about sports and how... So sports is, from a media perspective right now, sports is a revenue driver or only a reach driver? And does that reach convert to revenue?

That was my point.

Gaurav Banerjee: It's both. So I think for us, it does all of that, right? So it's a revenue driver, it's a reach driver, and it contributes to profits.

So I think that's something that we wanted to do all three. We don't want it to do only one or only one of two or whatever. It needs to, and it should do all three.

And if you play this well, it will do all three, right? So there is no problem with sports, right? And fans love live entertainment, sports, particularly on streaming, right?

There's no doubt about it, right? We have to think hard and be disciplined around the economics. So the problem is the problem of P&L owners and thinkers.

And therefore, I think we've done a really, really good job of that. And we hope to continue to do that.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Okay. Last question. There's always perpetual shadow these days.

And I was speaking to Subhash yesterday, the day before, on television. And it's a medium with still 7-800 million reach. So it's a large medium.

But there's always this thing, television is a sunset medium, in decline. How do you address that narrative? And especially because now you're Chairman of Yes.

You do also have some role in IBF, if I'm not mistaken.

Gaurav Banerjee: I'm on the Board of Directors of IBF, that's right.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: So how do you as a television industry man, how do you address that question? How can the industry ensure that the narrative is, because a narrative is what changes advertisers' heads also at some point, which is what happened with publishing.

Gaurav Banerjee: Yeah. So I think, Vanita, changing reality is the best way to change narratives, right? So I think there is a false sort of divide between perception and reality and all of that.

I personally always believe that you change the reality, the perception changes. Any other way to change the perception is short-lived. So I think for television, right, it has a lot going for it.

And I think the owners of television need more confidence and belief in that. And what do I mean by that? I think one of the things that we must do is invest behind reinventing the television experience and keeping fans at the centre of that.

So what is Sony doing? First, it's investing more. So we're the one network which has said that we will launch more channels.

We've already launched a few, and we want to launch more this October. We will launch a Tamil entertainment channel.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Yeah, I read that.

Gaurav Banerjee: And we are investing more in regional TV in general. I spoke about Madhuri Dixit on Vizha. We are going to launch two really big shows.

One, Celebrity Masterchef, on which we have signed up with Samantha Ruth Prabhu as our mentor and face. And the other is Tamil Idol, where we are bringing on A. R. Rahman.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Oh, he's coming on?

Gaurav Banerjee: Yes.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Oh, really?

Gaurav Banerjee: So I think the first thing that, you know, and we don't want to walk the talk. And therefore, the big input from Sony side is, can we build new channels? Can we build more high quality programming and put it on TV and make fans excited about television?

So I think that's what we want to do. We want to set our house in order. We want to make good television shows.

And I think everything that we have spoken about, whether it is Idol or KBC or Hastinapur KV, or our foray into regional, we are putting our money behind making this good. And I'm hopeful that the creative economy of television also comes to life and, you know, aims to do better and aims to do more. So I think the world of television needs great storytelling, right?

It needs very, very good writing. It needs good actors. It needs terrific marketing.

And I think if we can all sort of commit to do that, we will see growth, right? So there is, you know, this country has a very good pay TV market, even today. And advertisers care for that market, right?

Our success in KBC, which is just today, proves that, right? And there is a huge free TV market, right? Which we also are in the process of shaping, right?

Which is going to be terrific because a lot of those free markets is where there's tremendous GDP growth. It's already happening and a tonne more will happen in the next five, seven years. And therefore, you know, between both these ways of distribution on TV, there is a good business, right?

And it's a high margin business when done and operated properly. So why wouldn't you do that, right? So that's our effort.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: But I always think that, you know, and I've seen this in other segments, maybe not. Advertisers have strong confirmation bias. Either the commissions are better from some other media segment or they have a strong confirmation.

If they think something is in decline, it's like the blinkers come on. It's very difficult to break through that. And I've been on the consulting side where I've seen media companies hire consultants in order to break through that bias.

So, you know, that's why I was curious about is that if that's not an issue, it's very great. It's not reached that stage of confirmation bias.

Gaurav Banerjee: Yeah, it's not an issue. Because I think there are some amazing strengths to that medium, right? One is the large screen and a much more sort of attentive environment, right?

So, and advertisers really do value that.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Aaj kal toh bahut hi hai. Today toh they really...

Gaurav Banerjee: They do.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: They want to pay more. That's why sports are here.

Gaurav Banerjee: Yes, they want to pay more for that reason. So I think I don't believe we have an advertiser-led problem, right? And I think the narrative setting part of it, what you mentioned, right?

This is a creative problem for us to solve, right? And Sony's part of that answer is everything that we've talked about. Can we make really amazing, inventive, fresh, good television shows, right?

And if we can do that, we will see audience behaviour change, right? So I think that's the reason why, whether it is SET or Sony Sub, our ratings, our reach has grown, right? So there is data there.

And I think this has given us more confidence. And therefore, as you can see, in the next 12 months, we will invest a lot more, right? We'll invest in Sony Sub, we'll invest in SET, we'll invest on a new Tamil channel, we'll invest in other south regional channels, and we will invest in Marathi and Bangla as well.

So I think our answer is creativity, innovation, and deeper investments.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: And where is Sony two years from now? Three years from now?

Gaurav Banerjee: Hopefully, much further down the path of entertaining billions plus screens.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar: Inshallah. On that happy note, thank you so much for speaking to us.

Gaurav Banerjee: Thank you so much, Vanita. Thanks a lot.